First of all, Minnesota...and the Vikings...are the same team. That would be 3 horrific games.

 

Secondly he had more than 2 good games. He played very well against the Cowboys, Jets, Falcons (i was in attendance at this one), Detroit, Philly, and New England. That is 6 good games, 3 average games, and 3 horrific games IMO. No, he's not Tom or Peyton. I NEVER said he was. But not many QB's are.

 

Ok, we're going to have to pull out the facts, it appears.

 

Eli Manning - 2007

 

16 games

 

297-529 (54.7%)

 

3,336 yards

 

23 touchdowns

 

20 INTs (league leader, I believe)

 

QB Rating = 73.4

 

27 Sacks

 

13 Fumbles

 

Pretty mediocre, if you ask me.

Ok, we're going to have to pull out the facts, it appears.

 

Eli Manning - 2007

 

16 games

 

297-529 (54.7%)

 

3,336 yards

 

23 touchdowns

 

20 INTs (league leader, I believe)

 

QB Rating = 73.4

 

27 Sacks

 

13 Fumbles

 

Pretty mediocre, if you ask me.

 

Stats are only one part of the game.

 

He's been to the playoffs 3 years in a row, has led his team to 10 straight road wins, has played darn near perfect in the playoffs (zero turnovers), and is now playing in the greatest game in sports.

 

Also factor in that his WR's led the league in drops, that hurts his rating a lot.

 

I don't even know why we're arguing. He's not better than Peyton, I've admitted that 100 times.

First off HB, you need to go back and read what I said about Jan I mean Eli in the Giants Packers Final thread, and what are the stats for those horrible games for the opposition, I'm curious?

 

And Wireman, can you try and get Elvis Grbac's take on it while your at it?

Stats are only one part of the game.

 

He's been to the playoffs 3 years in a row, has led his team to 10 straight road wins, has played darn near perfect in the playoffs (zero turnovers), and is now playing in the greatest game in sports.

 

Also factor in that his WR's led the league in drops, that hurts his rating a lot.

 

I don't even know why we're arguing. He's not better than Peyton, I've admitted that 100 times.

 

I will give you this - he has stepped up late in the season when it matters. He has definately shown improvement.:thumb: A giant step would be to defeat the Patriots in the Super Bowl.

Without that stud D the Giants wouldnt have even been in the games, they won in spite of Eli during the season, he didnt LEAD anything, however in the Playoffs Eli has been a stud

The NFC is awful? The Packers and Cowboys were 13-3.

 

The Giants, Cowboys, Eagles, Packers, Lions, Bears, and Cardinals were a combined 22-6 vs the AFC.

 

The NFC overall was 32-33 vs the AFC. Most losses coming from the Rams, Panthers, Saints, Falcons, and 49ers.

 

The NFC is NOT awful this year.

Let's take a look at that 22-6 record. That's 22 wins and 6 loses against teams with a combined record of 86-106. The 7 teams you listed played a total of 12 different teams, only 4 of which had winning records. Also in that 12 teams is 4 of the worst teams, including the worst team, in the NFL this year. Six of the 22 wins were against the NYJ and Miami. Three of the teams you listed played the Pats and all 3 lost. Only three of the 22 wins were against teams with a winning record. GB beat SD and Ari beat Pit & Cle.

 

If you are building the NFC's case based on those 22 wins and 6 loses this debate is over.

First off HB, you need to go back and read what I said about Jan I mean Eli in the Giants Packers Final thread, and what are the stats for those horrible games for the opposition, I'm curious?

 

And Wireman, can you try and get Elvis Grbac's take on it while your at it?

 

Give me a sec, I've got Rick Mirer on line 2. :banana:

Give me a sec, I've got Rick Mirer on line 2. :banana:

 

:laugh:

I assume you simply chose not to read the part where I said Eli is not better than Peyton.

 

Eli has played bad from time to time this year.

 

You like to point out just the bad and not notice the good. He's played very well for the past 4 weeks and it should be acknowledged. He's only been a starter for THREE years. It takes time for guys to be good at being an NFL quarterback.

 

I've heard enough about JLo. I'm a big fan of his. I enjoyed watching him play for Kentucky and I'm glad he's a Giant. But what has he done to prove he'd be any better? The Giants would have been CRAZY to bench Eli this year and he's proving that right now. The "Giants should start JLo" stuff is just plain crazy.

 

J-Lo would have probably had more int's and TO's...he never struck me as the smartest player or wisest decision-maker in his time as UK's QB...I still remember that great pass against Florida that helped us blow a 21-3 4th quarter lead. The Giants obviously like something about Lorenzen, but I feel pretty confident in saying that their QB situation would be much worse if Lorenzen was the starter for an extended period of time. He's been in the system for a while now, so I wouldn't be surprised if he could come in and play well for short amounts (like a lot of good backups), but he's not a starting QB, IMO. Eli is their guy and rightfully so...

 

I've been critical of Eli's play myself at times. And, it's true that he's been up and down, but I have to agree with hb20 when he says it takes time for guys to develop. Some are quicker than others, and unfortunately, that's what everyone expects...I think Giants fans have to be really excited about their team, regardless of whether they win the Super Bowl. I think there is reason to believe that Eli is starting to emerge and become they guy everyone expects. His decision making and knack for making huge mistakes was my biggest complaint against him and he has not done that at all in the past month or so...

Let's take a look at that 22-6 record. That's 22 wins and 6 loses against teams with a combined record of 86-106. The 7 teams you listed played a total of 12 different teams, only 4 of which had winning records. Also in that 12 teams is 4 of the worst teams, including the worst team, in the NFL this year. Six of the 22 wins were against the NYJ and Miami. Three of the teams you listed played the Pats and all 3 lost. Only three of the 22 wins were against teams with a winning record. GB beat SD and Ari beat Pit & Cle.

 

If you are building the NFC's case based on those 22 wins and 6 loses this debate is over.

 

 

 

Three teams I listed lost to the Pats? Well guess what, everyone else that played them did as well.

 

Why don't you break down the AFC's record vs the NFC as well, because I'd assume the majority of their wins over the NFC came over the St.Louis Rams, Carolina Panthers, Atlanta Falcons, and San Francisco 49ers. The argument goes both ways.

 

While I will agree that the NFC is not quite as good as the AFC, it is no where near "awful".

 

The debate goes on...

J-Lo would have probably had more int's and TO's...he never struck me as the smartest player or wisest decision-maker in his time as UK's QB...I still remember that great pass against Florida that helped us blow a 21-3 4th quarter lead. The Giants obviously like something about Lorenzen, but I feel pretty confident in saying that their QB situation would be much worse if Lorenzen was the starter for an extended period of time. He's been in the system for a while now, so I wouldn't be surprised if he could come in and play well for short amounts (like a lot of good backups), but he's not a starting QB, IMO. Eli is their guy and rightfully so...

 

I've been critical of Eli's play myself at times. And, it's true that he's been up and down, but I have to agree with hb20 when he says it takes time for guys to develop. Some are quicker than others, and unfortunately, that's what everyone expects...I think Giants fans have to be really excited about their team, regardless of whether they win the Super Bowl. I think there is reason to believe that Eli is starting to emerge and become they guy everyone expects. His decision making and knack for making huge mistakes was my biggest complaint against him and he has not done that at all in the past month or so...

 

 

:thumb:

First off HB, you need to go back and read what I said about Jan I mean Eli in the Giants Packers Final thread, and what are the stats for those horrible games for the opposition, I'm curious?

 

And Wireman, can you try and get Elvis Grbac's take on it while your at it?

 

Elvis Grbac is probably a better expert than you and I.

 

I will ask you this, have you even watched Dilfers breakdowns? He breaks down film of plays very thoroughly. If he's not an expert because he's not a great QB then who is an expert?

 

I've posted the stats of the opposing QB for the Buffalo game. Go back and try again.

Without that stud D the Giants wouldnt have even been in the games, they won in spite of Eli during the season, he didnt LEAD anything, however in the Playoffs Eli has been a stud

 

Since you don't watch many Giants games, and probably just take ESPN's word for it, I'll let you in on something.

 

Many times this season and in the past Eli has led his team down for game tying or winning drives at the end of games. This is a team game and while the defense has been a big part, Eli has as well. Same goes for the Giants running game/offensive line.

Eli has been in the NFL for a short time and has already led his team to a Superbowl...

 

Is Eli actually better than is brother at this point in his career? If so, how good COULD he be?

 

For what it's worth I am not a fan of either Manning.

 

Nice try:thumb:

Nice try:thumb:

 

 

Yes I dislike Peyton, but I don't give a rat one way or another about his little brother. I wanted to see the Manningites come out in force to defend their almighty football deity. Want I should slaughter a pigskin and offer it up to your football lord and savior?

 

I think if people were willing to be a little more honest with themselves they would take HB20's points more seriously. Either way I don't care because the Patriots are going to win the Superbowl and laugh in the face of everyone who had it out for them this season.

 

For the record, I am a Bengals fan.