So religion to you is a fire escape? Do you follow the Chrisitian path because you truly believe that God is all loving or do you follow it so that he'll spare you some flames?

 

That is one of the biggest problems I have with Christianity. People! An All Loving Being would not allow you to burn for eternity!

No, that's not it at all. I can't put into words, nor will I try, what my faith means to me. I will also not try to persuade you to believe otherwise. If you want to follow the easy path then go for it. As to your characterization of an all loving God, I believe that God is not a person and no human mind can comprehend the true nature of God, therefore debating His nature is pointless.

 

It also gets old with devout Christians such as Pat Robertson and the late, not great Jerry Falwell use the cover of Christianity to spew hatred and attempt to oppress Americans.

I agree. Puffing up ones chest with some sort of intelectual or moral superiority because of what you do or don't believe is offensive to me. I take just as much offense to athiests who try to empiracally prove to me why they are right as I do to believers who think that their brand of faith is absolutely right and all others are wrong. I do take comfort in the fact that if I'm delusional the huge majority of my fellow man share my delusion.

Fair enough. At least, I have factual, empirical, and logical reasoning behind my cop-out.

 

 

 

 

Extremely easy. That's why it puzzles me that more people don't do it.

 

 

 

So religion to you is a fire escape? Do you follow the Chrisitian path because you truly believe that God is all loving or do you follow it so that he'll spare you some flames?

 

That is one of the biggest problems I have with Christianity. People! An All Loving Being would not allow you to burn for eternity!

 

 

 

It also gets old with devout Christians such as Pat Robertson and the late, not great Jerry Falwell use the cover of Christianity to spew hatred and attempt to oppress Americans.

 

Not all Christians believe in a fiery hell, nor do all Christians believe that God is one the would punish someone forever. There are many Christians who do not believe in a dogma, or doctrine, but believe in the unconditional love of God the was shown through the unconditional love of Jesus.

 

They also believe in the cosmic christ - that is the small voice in your head that draws you to do the right/loving thing, and believe that you have not put a name to it yet, and may never . . . and yet as you strive to do good and be good you are striving toward a creator or "energy" as you may call it (since you answered that energy is never created nor destroyed and has apparently always existed and will always exist - sounds like God doesn't it) and that striving is pleasing to God.

Wrong thread.

 

So religion to you is a fire escape? Do you follow the Chrisitian path because you truly believe that God is all loving or do you follow it so that he'll spare you some flames?

 

That is one of the biggest problems I have with Christianity. People! An All Loving Being would not allow you to burn for eternity!

.

 

Paschal's wager is not a proof, but a reason to consider believing.

We have more than established a working definition of the word "faith"...

 

 

 

I respect your concern - and please know that equal I have equal concern for you.

 

what is your concern for us?

No, that's not it at all. I can't put into words, nor will I try, what my faith means to me. I will also not try to persuade you to believe otherwise. If you want to follow the easy path then go for it. As to your characterization of an all loving God, I believe that God is not a person and no human mind can comprehend the true nature of God, therefore debating His nature is pointless.

 

Why have a religion forum then? If you don't wish to debate it - just ignore it and move on.

 

 

I agree. Puffing up ones chest with some sort of intelectual or moral superiority because of what you do or don't believe is offensive to me. I take just as much offense to athiests who try to empiracally prove to me why they are right as I do to believers who think that their brand of faith is absolutely right and all others are wrong. I do take comfort in the fact that if I'm delusional the huge majority of my fellow man share my delusion.

 

 

That was probably the most well thought out reply, I have received. I agree with you. :thumb:

When I first became a member of BGP back in 2004, I usually jumped into these type debates. But anymore I read more than I post.

 

I finally figured out that there's one word that would define this discussion: FAITH. One must simply have faith to believe their chosen beliefs and religion. Science and anything that disputes what is written, is seen by some as people that simply haven't gotten the message and don't understand the word.

 

My question: How can God be All Merciful, All Knowing, and All Powerful, but could still set up a system where His creation could end up burning in an unimaginable place.

If He is All Knowing, He knows everything...thousands of years before events happen. If He is All Merciful, He would never allow that to happen (are you listening Stalin, Hitler???). If He is All Powerful, then it doesn't happen.

 

Now, this is usually where the Free Will subject comes up. I will not say that free will doesn't exist, but I will say that it is a very convenient way to skirt the issue. It's a way to place the blame on the creation of God. But if an All Knowing God is All Knowing, then He knew what the free will decision by the individual was before it was ever made. If He is All Merciful, He doesn't allow innocent people to suffer at the hands of beast like Stalin and Hitler, or lately, the 911 terrorist and the Oklahoma City bombing.

When I first became a member of BGP back in 2004, I usually jumped into these type debates. But anymore I read more than I post.

 

I finally figured out that there's one word that would define this discussion: FAITH. One must simply have faith to believe their chosen beliefs and religion. Science and anything that disputes what is written, is seen by some as people that simply haven't gotten the message and don't understand the word.

 

My question: How can God be All Merciful, All Knowing, and All Powerful, but could still set up a system where His creation could end up burning in an unimaginable place.

If He is All Knowing, He knows everything...thousands of years before events happen. If He is All Merciful, He would never allow that to happen (are you listening Stalin, Hitler???). If He is All Powerful, then it doesn't happen.

 

Now, this is usually where the Free Will subject comes up. I will not say that free will doesn't exist, but I will say that it is a very convenient way to skirt the issue. It's a way to place the blame on the creation of God. But if an All Knowing God is All Knowing, then He knew what the free will decision by the individual was before it was ever made. If He is All Merciful, He doesn't allow innocent people to suffer at the hands of beast like Stalin and Hitler, or lately, the 911 terrorist and the Oklahoma City bombing.

 

Prof,

 

Wonderful post. The questions you raise in regards to the idea of "All Knowing" , "All Merciful", "All Seeing", "All Loving", "All etc." is what I really what I want to dive into on these debates.

We have more than established a working definition of the word "faith"...

 

 

 

I respect your concern - and please know that equal I have equal concern for you.

 

what is your concern for us?

 

My question: How can God be All Merciful, All Knowing, and All Powerful, but could still set up a system where His creation could end up burning in an unimaginable place.

If He is All Knowing, He knows everything...thousands of years before events happen. If He is All Merciful, He would never allow that to happen (are you listening Stalin, Hitler???). If He is All Powerful, then it doesn't happen.

 

Now, this is usually where the Free Will subject comes up. I will not say that free will doesn't exist, but I will say that it is a very convenient way to skirt the issue. It's a way to place the blame on the creation of God. But if an All Knowing God is All Knowing, then He knew what the free will decision by the individual was before it was ever made. If He is All Merciful, He doesn't allow innocent people to suffer at the hands of beast like Stalin and Hitler, or lately, the 911 terrorist and the Oklahoma City bombing.

 

My belief is that God is also just, and in order for Him to be just there must be a punishment for the wicked.

 

He is All Merciful because, simply, I know no person on earth who deserves eternal salvation- everyone sins. His Mercy saves us. Also, He is All Merciful because anyone, Hitler, Stalin, or any of the above, can still be saved if they repent, no matter how horrible their crimes.

 

Originally Posted by All Tell

If I can't see, hear, feel, touch, taste or smell it, it doesn't exist.

 

How easy is that.

 

 

 

Extremely easy. That's why it puzzles me that more people don't do it.

 

 

You can't see, hear, feel, touch, taste or smell the love of a child for their parent. I guess you would say it doesn't exist.

 

You can't see, hear, feel, touch, taste or smell the joy that a UK fan has when KY wins the national championship. I guess you would say it doesn't exist.

 

You can't see, hear, feel, touch, taste or smell the theory of the Big Bang or evolution. I guess you would say they don't exist.

When I first became a member of BGP back in 2004, I usually jumped into these type debates. But anymore I read more than I post.

 

I finally figured out that there's one word that would define this discussion: FAITH. One must simply have faith to believe their chosen beliefs and religion. Science and anything that disputes what is written, is seen by some as people that simply haven't gotten the message and don't understand the word.

 

My question: How can God be All Merciful, All Knowing, and All Powerful, but could still set up a system where His creation could end up burning in an unimaginable place.

If He is All Knowing, He knows everything...thousands of years before events happen. If He is All Merciful, He would never allow that to happen (are you listening Stalin, Hitler???). If He is All Powerful, then it doesn't happen.

 

Now, this is usually where the Free Will subject comes up. I will not say that free will doesn't exist, but I will say that it is a very convenient way to skirt the issue. It's a way to place the blame on the creation of God. But if an All Knowing God is All Knowing, then He knew what the free will decision by the individual was before it was ever made. If He is All Merciful, He doesn't allow innocent people to suffer at the hands of beast like Stalin and Hitler, or lately, the 911 terrorist and the Oklahoma City bombing.

 

 

I was reading a sermon that indicated that Scripture shows that Hell was created for Satan and the angels that followed him for the attempted overthrow of Heaven. Those humans that choose to reject God will also get the punishment that was reserved for Satan upon his banishment from Heaven.

 

As far as the free will argument, God absolutely could have create complete mindless robots of us to blindly follow Him. He could have made each of us to believe in Him, including FrontFan, without question. But that would have been a hollow Love for Him. Instead he desires the Love for Him that is given.

 

Again, it is not HIS choice for HIS creation to burn. Left to his choice, Adam and Eve would still be in the Garden of Eden.

 

But they and us choose to either Love and Follow Him or reject Him. It is our choice not his.

 

When you punished your children growing up, was it your fault or theirs that they got a punishment?

 

So religion to you is a fire escape? Do you follow the Chrisitian path because you truly believe that God is all loving or do you follow it so that he'll spare you some flames?

 

That is one of the biggest problems I have with Christianity. People! An All Loving Being would not allow you to burn for eternity!

.

 

You are exactly right that he won't. That is why Jesus Christ came to this Earth 2000 years ago. To prevent that.

 

Are you suggesting that God should make us mindless zombies to follow him so that people don't reject him?

 

Cause the ONLY WAY TO BURN FOR ETERNITY, is to reject God. That's it. It's your decision. It's my decision. It is not God's decision. He made his decision by sending Christ. The onus is now 100% on your and me and no one else.

 

He doesn't want a single soul to burn for eternity. You are 100% right and preaching the gospel message with that statement. He loves you so much, he gave His life for you.

 

And taught me to do the same. If it came down to you and me and only one is to survive, I am taught to sacrifice myself. Why?

 

Not because of some noble message. But because my soul is set in Heaven and it appears yours is not. If I die, I go with God for all eternity. Based on what you say, you don't. So, I should sacrifice myself, so that you have more time on this planet to maybe change your mind.

 

That is how much he wants no soul to burn in eternity. He wants me to give up my life so that you have more time on this planet to come to a different decision.

I am still waiting for the lawsuit from the atheists group suing for the right to work on Christmas. I would assume they don't want a day off for a Christian holiday either and are upset that it is forced onto them.:cool::lol:

Not all Christians believe in a fiery hell, nor do all Christians believe that God is one the would punish someone forever. There are many Christians who do not believe in a dogma, or doctrine, but believe in the unconditional love of God the was shown through the unconditional love of Jesus.

 

Isn't it ironic that the person of the first 6 letters of Christian believed in a fiery hell but today some Christians don't.