I think a better way to word that is that "some" of the Founding Fathers did not intend this nation to be a nation ruled by the Christian religion.

 

I think most, if not almost all, wished for Christianity to be the faith practiced in this country and helped guide this country.

 

I think some, might have gone as far to want a Christian ruler.

 

But to say OUR FOUNDING FATHERS indicates that all were of the same mindset and looking at politicians, I found it hard to believe that all were in 100% agreement on the issue.

 

Especially in light that some of the signatures on that paper were very strong Christians and guided by their faith.

 

 

I agree with that which I bolded. However the leading voices of the Revolutionary experiment of Democracy were Deists (Jefferson, Franklin) or not practicing Christians (Washington) or Christians who saw Religious Liberty as the mantra and an avoidance at all costs of a marriage between the State and Church like was witnessed in Europe (Madison). These are some of the greatest voices who articulated the dream and to discount them as "just some of the guys" would be a mistake.

Well if you need an Inquisitor for anything 'round these parts just let me know.

 

 

You tend to get a bit to "Spanish" in your techniques....I prefer to just keep talking till the opposition caves in.

The founding fathers had no intention of denying Christianity in the US. Whether they forsaw the day that non-Christian religious beliefs would be the subject of defense is irrelevant. The point of separation of church and state was that a theocracy would be avoided. The founding fathers were well aware of the reasons many sought America as their new home, and that was religious persecution by theocratical governments.

 

Thank you for the input...

 

The only problem is that has nothing to do with what we are talking about. :thumb:

 

No one has said anything remotely close to the fact that the fathers wanted to deny Christianity in the US or that they wanted to deny any religion for that matter. We are discussing the question of rather or not they intended this nation to be a "Christian" nation - which evidence, IMO, clearly shows they did not.

Well if you need an Inquisitor for anything 'round these parts just let me know.

 

What a Show ! :thumb:

Thank you for the input...

 

The only problem is that has nothing to do with what we are talking about. :thumb:

 

No one has said anything remotely close to the fact that the fathers wanted to deny Christianity in the US or that they wanted to deny any religion for that matter. We are discussing the question of rather or not they intended this nation to be a "Christian" nation - which evidence, IMO, clearly shows they did not.

 

 

Well, I do believe what I said does have everything to do with what we're talking about. You are trying to prove that they didn't intend this to be a Christian nation, others are trying to prove that they did. The point is both of you are incorrect.

I think a better way to word that is that "some" of the Founding Fathers did not intend this nation to be a nation ruled by the Christian religion.

 

I think most, if not almost all, wished for Christianity to be the faith practiced in this country and helped guide this country.

 

I think some, might have gone as far to want a Christian ruler.

 

But to say OUR FOUNDING FATHERS indicates that all were of the same mindset and looking at politicians, I found it hard to believe that all were in 100% agreement on the issue.

 

Especially in light that some of the signatures on that paper were very strong Christians and guided by their faith.

 

 

 

Hogwash. You and I both know that by saying "Our Founding Fathers" is not bunching them all into together. It is no different in saying "Congress wishes to do..." Whatever it is that Congress wishes to do as a whole may not be what many individual members wish to do.

 

I find it interesting that you say many of Founding Fathers were strong Christians when in fact that could not be further from the truth. The vast majority of our Founding Fathers as were many of the great thinkers during the time were deists. They believed in a God that created them and left them to their own accord.

Well, I do believe what I said does have everything to do with what we're talking about. You are trying to prove that they didn't intend this to be a Christian nation, others are trying to prove that they did. The point is both of you are incorrect.

 

I disagree. A nation that allows Christianity and a nation based on Christianity who two different animals all together.

I disagree. A nation that allows Christianity and a nation based on Christianity who two different animals all together.

 

 

The intentions of the founding fathers had nothing to do with either allowing Christianity or based upon Christianity. It had everyting to do with creating political and legal rights of citizens to practice their religion without fear of persecution. To project anything further is to deny that there were Jewish citizens in the US at the time of the constitution. There were approximately 2000 Jews in the US at the time of the Revolution.

The intentions of the founding fathers had nothing to do with either allowing Christianity or based upon Christianity. It had everyting to do with creating political and legal rights of citizens to practice their religion without fear of persecution. To project anything further is to deny that there were Jewish citizens in the US at the time of the constitution. There were approximately 2000 Jews in the US at the time of the Revolution.

 

I agree fully.

 

This nation was not founded as a "Christian Nation", a "Jewish Nation", a "Pagan Nation", or even a "Deist Nation." This country was founded as a Nation of Freedom - especially from government mandated religion.

 

My question now is: If were created as a nation to be free from government mandated religion why must we now put up with religion mandated government?

I agree fully.

 

This nation was founded as a "Christian Nation", a "Jewish Nation", a "Pagan Nation", or even a "Deist Nation." This country was founded was a Nation of Freedom - especially from government mandated religion.

 

My question now is: If were created as a nation to be free from government mandated religion why must we now put up with religion mandated government?

 

 

I guess I'm confused by your term "religion mandated government". Can you give me a better idea what you mean?

I guess I'm confused by your term "religion mandated government". Can you give me a better idea what you mean?

 

When I speak of "Religion mandated government." I am referring to the popular style of government in which a politican will let religion influence his policy ideals. (i.e. Same-sex marriage, stem cell research)

I agree fully.

 

This nation was not founded as a "Christian Nation", a "Jewish Nation", a "Pagan Nation", or even a "Deist Nation." This country was founded as a Nation of Freedom - especially from government mandated religion.

 

My question now is: If were created as a nation to be free from government mandated religion why must we now put up with religion mandated government?

You yourself want to have a religion mandated government. Your religion just happens to be Agnosticism.

When I speak of "Religion mandated government." I am referring to the popular style of government in which a politican will let religion influence his policy ideals. (i.e. Same-sex marriage, stem cell research)

 

 

Well, that's not a "mandate"....it's an influence. There's nothing in the present day version of the constitution that dictates a politician set aside his religious beliefs in the matter of legislation. At the core of this, all religions with which I am familiar have the same codes of morality and ethics. The distortion of some of these lead to extremism. My issues wth the legislation of these issues is not that I agree with the morality being legislated, but that I don't believe that the federal government should be legislating morality.

You yourself want to have a religion mandated government. Your religion just happens to be Agnosticism.

 

Absolutely not.

 

First of all, I don't buy that Agnosticism is a religion. Agnosticism is a view of religions. It simply means "I don't know."

 

I want a government based on logic. I want a government based on freedom and full rights to all citizens. I want a government that not oppress based on any religious views.

Well, that's not a "mandate"....it's an influence. There's nothing in the present day version of the constitution that dictates a politician set aside his religious beliefs in the matter of legislation. At the core of this, all religions with which I am familiar have the same codes of morality and ethics. The distortion of some of these lead to extremism. My issues wth the legislation of these issues is not that I agree with the morality being legislated, but that I don't believe that the federal government should be legislating morality.

 

Fair enough.

 

I can admit when its hard to argue with someone.