[/b][/u]

This is really a funny asumption. I am probably old enough to be your grandmother --- but thanks for the compliment ... anyway, I have friends, yes, I said friends, who are homosexuals . . . they tell me they chose the lifestyle . . . I witness to them about what the bible says . . . they listen, respect what I say, but they CHOOSE to remain in that lifestyle.

 

My brother is homosexual. He spent many years in self-denial, trying to fight who and what he is. It just didn't work and he's been much happier and better off since he quit fighting himself.

 

Asking a homosexual to choose not to be gay for the rest of his or her life is like asking any human to choose not to breathe for the rest of his or her life. It's impossible.

 

In fact, I'm going to throw you a curveball: Perhaps God created homosexuals to weed out those who say they follow his teachings but in fact only pay lip service to His word. :lol:

My brother is homosexual. He spent many years in self-denial, trying to fight who and what he is. It just didn't work and he's been much happier and better off since he quit fighting himself.

 

Asking a homosexual to choose not to be gay for the rest of his or her life is like asking any human to choose not to breathe for the rest of his or her life. It's impossible.

 

In fact, I'm going to throw you a curveball: Perhaps God created homosexuals to weed out those who say they follow his teachings but in fact only pay lip service to His word. :lol:

 

 

OOooohhhhh....you're gonna get it now! :lol:

[/b][/u]

This is really a funny asumption. I am probably old enough to be your grandmother --- but thanks for the compliment ... anyway, I have friends, yes, I said friends, who are homosexuals . . . they tell me they chose the lifestyle . . . I witness to them about what the bible says . . . they listen, respect what I say, but they CHOOSE to remain in that lifestyle. It is a choice. I'll not try to convince you otherwise, we will just have to agree to disagree! Perhaps as you grow older you will eventually understand the scope of your misconceptions. I know one day we all we have perfect Truth when we bow before the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. :thumb:

 

You need to either do stand up or play poker - cause either your kidding one of us (me or yourself) or your lying. For the sake of argument, I'll go with that your kidding yourself. If you truly think that homosexuality is any more a choice than heterosexuality - youre in denial or being nieve. (That's the second time I've said that tonight - wow - I hope I am not becoming overly repetitive.)

My brother is homosexual. He spent many years in self-denial, trying to fight who and what he is. It just didn't work and he's been much happier and better off since he quit fighting himself.

 

Asking a homosexual to choose not to be gay for the rest of his or her life is like asking any human to choose not to breathe for the rest of his or her life. It's impossible.

 

In fact, I'm going to throw you a curveball: Perhaps God created homosexuals to weed out those who say they follow his teachings but in fact only pay lip service to His word. :lol:

 

If I could donate you a billion bluegrasspreps points, I would give you atleast half a million.

 

Excellent Post, Tom.:thumb:

You need to either do stand up or play poker - cause either your kidding one of us (me or yourself) or your lying. For the sake of argument, I'll go with that your kidding yourself. If you truly think that homosexuality is any more a choice than heterosexuality - youre in denial or being nieve. (That's the second time I've said that tonight - wow - I hope I am not becoming overly repetitive.)

 

 

Since you are repeating yourself, what does snow or fistn have to do with the debate?

 

http://lingoz.com/en/dictionary/nieve/general%20dictionary/70747/1

 

nieve

Best definition

 

snow

 

 

More definitions :

snow, precipitation that falls as ice crystals

 

 

http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=561505724

nieve [ nv ] (plural nieves)

 

 

noun

 

Definition:

 

Scotland

Same as fistn (sense 1)

My brother is homosexual. He spent many years in self-denial, trying to fight who and what he is. It just didn't work and he's been much happier and better off since he quit fighting himself.

 

Asking a homosexual to choose not to be gay for the rest of his or her life is like asking any human to choose not to breathe for the rest of his or her life. It's impossible.

 

In fact, I'm going to throw you a curveball: Perhaps God created homosexuals to weed out those who say they follow his teachings but in fact only pay lip service to His word. :lol:

 

There are a lot of people that have similar lifestyle choices or what they say are "the way they are" that our society tells is unacceptable.

 

Should people with anger issues just get a free reign to go off on whomever they wish because they have anger issues?

 

Should people that are kleptomaniacs be given free reign to steal even though they say it is a problem they have?

 

Are there not OTHER sexual choices that could argue if one sexual choice is the "way they are" that they then are created that way too?

 

 

 

On your last point, it might be. There are many that don't follow his teachings and I will use his words on how we should treat sinners (which is ALL OF US) like homosexuals.

 

"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

 

Please notice BOTH PARTS of the message. I don't condemn them but they need to leave their life of sin.

 

Several on here only pay lip service to the true message of Christ and only want to teach the first part while not teaching the second part.

 

Also, NOTICE THIS VERY IMPORTANT PART, this is no different than the standard I hold for myself and my daily battle with sin. I need to leave the sins that too often barges into my daily life.

There are a lot of people that have similar lifestyle choices or what they say are "the way they are" that our society tells is unacceptable.

 

Should people with anger issues just get a free reign to go off on whomever they wish because they have anger issues?

 

Should people that are kleptomaniacs be given free reign to steal even though they say it is a problem they have?

 

Are there not OTHER sexual choices that could argue if one sexual choice is the "way they are" that they then are created that way too?

 

See, here's the thing: We have science. Science lets us look at the structure of the human brain, and when we do that we learn that there are differences in the structure of the hypothalamus between heterosexual men and homosexual men.

 

Adultery is a choice. Watching porn? Also a choice. But there is strong scientific evidence that homosexuality is not a choice.

See, here's the thing: We have science. Science lets us look at the structure of the human brain, and when we do that we learn that there are differences in the structure of the hypothalamus between heterosexual men and homosexual men.

 

Adultery is a choice. Watching porn? Also a choice. But there is strong scientific evidence that homosexuality is not a choice.

There is no strong scientific evidence that the commission of homosexual acts is anything but a choice. None.

 

The existence of both homosexual and heterosexual human beings who choose a life of celibacy is proof of this obvious fact. If an individual lacks the ability to control his or her own sexual behavior, then that person generally is imprisoned for the good of society.

 

Some people may be born with their wires crossed to the point that they feel a strong sexual attraction to members of their own sex but to argue that their lifestyle is determined in the womb is obviously a political position and not a scientific fact.

 

The choice by society to allow open homosexuality or to sanction homosexual marriage or "domestic partnerships" is not a separation of church and state issue, IMO.

 

I believe that polygamists have a much better argument that their government is discriminating against them on a religious basis than homosexuals. The fact that many gay rights activists have declined to advocate the recognition of polygamous marriages by government is the height of hypocrisy. How can anybody argue for gay marriage on the one hand and argue against polygamy on the other by declaring that marriage has always been between "two people?"

 

Gay marriage is a political issue - not a religious one.

There is no strong scientific evidence that the commission of homosexual acts is anything but a choice. None.

 

:laugh:

My personal theory - whilst I haveno scientific research to back it up (HAB - Back off ) - is that homosexuality is nature's way to control the population.

 

I am going to go out on a limb and say that you probably have had no or very limited contact with anyone who is gay or lesbian - as you get older and gain more life expierence you'll better realize the incongruity of your comments.

There is no scientific evidence to back your theory up because as a general practice, scientists do not waste their time testing hypotheses that can be disproved by casual observation of facts. If your personal theory had merit, homosexuality would have been extremely rare in ancient times because the earth had a much lower population density. Furthermore, the distribution of homosexuals would be heavily concentrated in urban areas and in countries such as Bangladesh. There would be virtually no migration of homosexual from rural areas to cities like San Francisco because gay people would only be born in communities with large gay populations.

 

While I do not agree with your theory it is an interesting proposition. I just do not believe that Nature is capable of deciding how to distribute the Earth's gay population. It is hard to envision a world where a subpopulation generally not inclined to procreate would thrive on any part of the planet.

[/b][/u]

This is really a funny asumption. I am probably old enough to be your grandmother --- but thanks for the compliment ... anyway, I have friends, yes, I said friends, who are homosexuals . . . they tell me they chose the lifestyle . . . I witness to them about what the bible says . . . they listen, respect what I say, but they CHOOSE to remain in that lifestyle. It is a choice. I'll not try to convince you otherwise, we will just have to agree to disagree! Perhaps as you grow older you will eventually understand the scope of your misconceptions. I know one day we all we have perfect Truth when we bow before the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. :thumb:

 

 

Hounds,

 

I thought I would share with you this email. Noel, a good friend of mine - and perhaps the most intelligent person I have met in my life time (hes a Mensa International member), had this to say in reply to your post. I copied and pasted the quoted post and told him nothing about who posted - only to reply to it giving his own oppinion and experience as a lifelong homosexual.

 

I found his answer quite informative. I hope you can do the same.

 

Hello Jere,

 

In regards to the post made by your fellow forum denizen:

 

"I have friends, yes, I said friends, who are homosexuals . . . they tell me they chose the lifestyle! . . . I witness to them about what the bible says . . . they listen, respect what I say, but they CHOOSE to remain in that lifestyle. It is a choice. I'll not try to convince you otherwise, we will just have to agree to disagree! Perhaps as you grow older you will eventually understand the scope of your misconceptions. I know one day we all we have perfect Truth when we bow before the King of Kings and Lord of Lords."

 

I have yet to meet a gay person that agrees that homosexuality is a choice, but your friend also seems to make no distinction between "being" gay, and "acting" gay. While I don't believe a person is ever given a choice as to who they are attracted to, it's certainly everyone's choice as to whether or not they act on those desires.

 

You might ask your friend if they remember the day they made a choice to be straight (assuming they are) and how that choice was presented to them. Then ask them if the situation were reversed, could they make the "choice" to go against their very being and "act" gay, if that's what society expected of them. It may give them a bit of insight into the "choice" they are trying to get gay people to make. In short, your friend is apparently acknowledging that gay people feel the way they do naturally, but he/she wants them to go against their natural drives to appease a God that your friend believes has sanctions against homosexuality. If Jesus came down to Earth tomorrow and informed the world that we got God's message wrong and that he meant for everyone to be bisexual, could your friend practice that command without some serious mental anguish? Doubtful, yet they are demanding that others do just that in the name of their beliefs.

 

I'd also be curious to know where your friend thinks gay people get their orientation from. I've met a lot of people that are happy to say "God created me in his image, but you have the Devil in you". It's a cheap argument and one that smacks of superiority, but I'd be curious to know what your friend believes.

 

 

I hope you got the answer you were looking for, but if you need more, just ask.

 

Noel

Hounds,

 

I thought I would share with you this email. Noel, a good friend of mine - and perhaps the most intelligent person I have met in my life time (hes a Mensa International member), had this to say in reply to your post. I copied and pasted the quoted post and told him nothing about who posted - only to reply to it giving his own oppinion and experience as a lifelong homosexual.

 

I found his answer quite informative. I hope you can do the same.

 

Do you and your friend hold that EVERY SINGLE person who has acted on a homosexual urge did so NOT out of choice?

 

I quote your friend....

 

Then ask them if the situation were reversed, could they make the "choice" to go against their very being and "act" gay, if that's what society expected of them.

 

It seems that they are saying that no one would ever go against "natural choice" to act on an urge.

 

 

Regarding the problem of acting against their natural urges, do they feel that those with anger issues should not be told they need to curb their anger but it is OKAY for them going through life, yelling and being mad at people. That is their natural urge and to paraphrase your friend....

 

In short, your friend is apparently acknowledging that gay people (with anger issues) feel the way they do naturally, but he/she wants them to go against their natural drives to appease a God that your friend believes has sanctions against homosexuality (anger too).

You need to either do stand up or play poker - cause either your kidding one of us (me or yourself) or your lying. For the sake of argument, I'll go with that your kidding yourself. If you truly think that homosexuality is any more a choice than heterosexuality - youre in denial or being nieve. (That's the second time I've said that tonight - wow - I hope I am not becoming overly repetitive.)

 

You are not calling me a liar---so I take no offense. However, you are calling God a liar. Oh yes, you don't believe in God and therefore is the problem. We have no common ground. You and I are never going to see eye to eye on any issue until the Holy Spirit opens yours. And, as I and others in this post have said repeatedly, (please pardon us) . . . "Every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord." Now or later you will eventually "see" God face to face, the creator of the Universe, the Sovereign Holy One, who alone is worthy of worship. It will be then that you will have any doubt of His existence removed. I am praying that it will happen before it is eternally too late. Oh yes, you spell nieve---naive----of which I am not.

Please do not feel sorry me, I am a child of the King and I boast not in any "supreme" knowledge that I possess but only in Christ alone.

You are not calling me a liar---so I take no offense. However, you are calling God a liar. Oh yes, you don't believe in God and therefore is the problem. We have no common ground. You and I are never going to see eye to eye on any issue until the Holy Spirit opens yours. And, as I and others in this post have said repeatedly, (please pardon us) . . . "Every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord." Now or later you will eventually "see" God face to face, the creator of the Universe, the Sovereign Holy One, who alone is worthy of worship. It will be then that you will have any doubt of His existence removed. I am praying that it will happen before it is eternally too late. Oh yes, you spell nieve---naive----of which I am not.

Please do not feel sorry me, I am a child of the King and I boast not in any "supreme" knowledge that I possess but only in Christ alone.

 

Woah.

 

I am calling God a liar? That's funny....when does God say that homosexuality is not a choice? I must have missed that particular scripture.

 

Secondly, I have never once said that I dont believe in "God." You are trying to make me into an athiest...I trust you know the difference. I am an agnostic. I will spare everyone another definition because I think most have established it. I am simply willing to acknowledge that there is no possible way to know if there is a God or not. Warm fuzzy feelings and biblical scriptures prove nothing. It simply proves that you are willing to believe and that you will cling on to anything as proof that you are doing nothing futher than wasting your time. That said, you may be referring to the fact that I have said I would not worship a God as it is decribed in the bible. This much is true. Though, if it were revealed to me that God is as described, to the letter, I would atleast acknowledge his existence though I would still deny him. I, in good conscience, could not worship a God capable of what is described in your holy text.

 

Thanks for the spelling lesson by the way.

Woah.

 

I am calling God a liar? That's funny....when does God say that homosexuality is not a choice? I must have missed that particular scripture.

 

Secondly, I have never once said that I dont believe in "God." You are trying to make me into an athiest...I trust you know the difference. I am an agnostic. I will spare everyone another definition because I think most have established it. I am simply willing to acknowledge that there is no possible way to know if there is a God or not. Warm fuzzy feelings and biblical scriptures prove nothing. It simply proves that you are willing to believe and that you will cling on to anything as proof that you are doing nothing futher than wasting your time. That said, you may be referring to the fact that I have said I would not worship a God as it is decribed in the bible. This much is true. Though, if it were revealed to me that God is as described, to the letter, I would atleast acknowledge his existence though I would still deny him. I, in good conscience, could not worship a God capable of what is described in your holy text.

 

Thanks for the spelling lesson by the way.

 

So, if it was revealed to you that God is as God is described in the Bible, you would choose eternal burning in Hell than worshipping him?

 

It seems you suffer from a bad case of the pride. You will only worship God on your conditions and the Creator of the all should bow to your wishes on matters.

 

I think Bruce found that didn't work out well in Bruce Almighty.