Having 20,000 posts and posting to everything addressed you does not necessarily mean you have answered anything, LBBC.

 

I still want you to answer my question on how you seperate humans and christianity?

.

 

Funny, you call me out on not addressing posts, but there were questions addressed to you in other threads from other days that still hang out there unanswered.

 

Before casting the first stone on not addressing posts, you may want to take care of answering questions in other threads posted to you.:thumb:

 

Who is the father of Joseph?

MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus,who is called Christ.

LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

 

 

One school of thought from a brief study: Matthew is tracing the legal descent of the house of David using only heirs to the throne while Luke traces the complete line of Joseph to David.

I have stayed away from personal attacks on your ignorance, so please if you want to have a discussion with me, don't tell me what I do and do not have in a relationship with my God.

 

Forgive me. When I used the word "You" I did not intend it to be referring to YOU, Ladiesbballcoach but humans in general. I did not mean to offend you - though I firmly stand by the statement that there is no connection between humans and God aside from prayer (talking to yourself) and warm, fuzzy feelings (this covers the "You just know it when you feel it" argument.)

 

On the Scriptures you have cited, I will look at and consider.

 

I'll be patiently awaiting a response...:banana:

 

God is a God of mercy of that there is no doubt. For, we screw up many times a day and we fall short of perfection that is needed for Heaven. So, his Son came out of Heaven to be the sacrifice for our screwups so that we can be in Heaven. That is definitely mercy to give where giving is not deserved.

 

I don't understand how you can say that. This "God" does not care to send someone into an eternal torment of fire and torment for simply refusing to worship him - but he is merciful? I would not wish that kind of pain on my most extreme enemy (not that I have any extreme enemies.) and I am far from trying to pass myself off as "all loving" and "all-merciful."

You're being way too defensive here. I was not saying that YOU personally said that you needed religion to have morals - but its a fair statement to say that a lot of people would think that.

 

One could gather though by the end of your post though,

 

that you are in fact basically saying that morals are based on religion. By saying that the absence of a God may be reason to live without morals - you are saying pretty clearly that morals are grounded in religion. It is simply not the case.

 

I do not believe in a God or think that using the word God in vain will cause me to burn forever in a mythical place below the ground - but I have a great sense of right and wrong. I am not just talking laws either.

 

I do not need the fear of a God judging me to know that I should not lie, cheat, steal, or be dishonest.

 

To answer your question about why a government should care - the answer is quite simple - and I am sure you knew that when you asked the question. Humans, for the most part, are a compassionate, caring being. We have welfare policies, public education taxes, and government sponsored programs because it is simply the right thing to do. The Bible does not say pay taxes so that our citizens can be offered free education - but yet we choose to continue to pay these taxes because its the logical, rational, and right thing to do.

 

How is it logical or rational to give money that you earned for other people's (that you don't even know) benefit? And if it is right, who determined this? I didn't intend for this thread to go down this path but it looks inevitable.

 

And if you think the government should have some morality involved, then what is your problem with a Christian in government- or better yet, a document based on Christian (or Muslim, or Buddhism, etc.) values. Not their "myths" as you so gently put it, but values and morals. Once again, I have no intention of proposing a Church-run state, just that I have no problem with religious people using religious ideals in their decisions in politics.

 

 

Because the NRA is one of the biggest, most resourced, and influential voting blocs in the country?

 

See the 18th and 21st ammendments before saying that the Constitution can not be changed.

 

How long ago were they changed?

 

And again, you want to call me out for what you think is not correctly reading the post, you may want to try that yourself. My post said:

 

I find it amusing that you believe we can change the Constitution in today's political forum.

 

Again, I ask, when was the 18th and 21st amendments addressed? Is that today's political forum?

One school of thought from a brief study: Matthew is tracing the legal descent of the house of David using only heirs to the throne while Luke traces the complete line of Joseph to David.

 

Weak. Matthew claims that Jacob "begat" Joesph. The word "begat" is defined as a male parent procreating or generating offspring - nothing to do with royal lineage. Either the site you found that argument on is dipping and dodging as well - or Matthew did not have a good understanding of his vocabulary.

How long ago were they changed?

 

And again, you want to call me out for what you think is not correctly reading the post, you may want to try that yourself. My post said:

 

I find it amusing that you believe we can change the Constitution in today's political forum.

 

Again, I ask, when was the 18th and 21st amendments addressed? Is that today's political forum?

 

Amendments are a very rare thing - as the process to add them is extremely drawn out - but we have had a new one added as recentally as the early 90's - and was it not your republican party that wished to add an amendment prohibiting gay marriage?

 

This is really all a moot point because the important issue here is that the Constitution was founded with the purpose of being a government document. The Bible was an article of faith.

Weak. Matthew claims that Jacob "begat" Joesph. The word "begat" is defined as a male parent procreating or generating offspring - nothing to do with royal lineage. Either the site you found that argument on is dipping and dodging as well - or Matthew did not have a good understanding of his vocabulary.

 

Well first of all translations mean different things, not that I know either way. Secondly, I doubt LBBC found that on a site. Thirdly, is an answer not in line with your answer considered dipping and dodging?

Forgive me. When I used the word "You" I did not intend it to be referring to YOU, Ladiesbballcoach but humans in general. I did not mean to offend you - though I firmly stand by the statement that there is no connection between humans and God aside from prayer (talking to yourself) and warm, fuzzy feelings (this covers the "You just know it when you feel it" argument.)

 

 

 

I'll be patiently awaiting a response...:banana:

 

 

 

I don't understand how you can say that. This "God" does not care to send someone into an eternal torment of fire and torment for simply refusing to worship him - but he is merciful? I would not wish that kind of pain on my most extreme enemy (not that I have any extreme enemies.) and I am far from trying to pass myself off as "all loving" and "all-merciful."

 

I answered your last paragraph in another thread that you never responded to. If you or I end up in Heaven, it will be by our choice not God's. God's Son came to Earth as a man and paid a price for our sins so that WE WON'T go to eternal torment.

 

It is not even a hard thing to take Christ as your Lord and Savior. We don't have to do a load of good works (although if you are true to being a Christ follower, you will), we don't have to live perfect lives (cause we can't), we simply have to believe in Christ as our Lord and Savior.

 

And your last sentence shows his mercy. Cause he tells us to pray for our enemies that our persecuting us. He tells us to turn the other cheek 70 times 7. He wants us to show MERCY when mercy is not deserved. The SAME as he did.

 

Honestly, that is very difficult for this imperfect human to do but I try. I fail at it. But I try, again.

 

And yes, there is a connection between God and I. Jesus said how will people know me, through my followers.

 

Good story in service today to address this point. (And I truly believe this story was put in front of me to share it with you tonight. That is a God thing, not a coincidence.)

 

True story from a pastor. Two men who share their lives together as partners were being ministered to by a church. Both had AIDS and one was close to dying. A elder at the church had had a horrible day at work and came home tired and upset. He got a call from the gentleman dying and asking whether he could come over as he was very sick.

 

Being the imperfect Christian he was, the elder headed over but he wasn't happy about it. He was still boiling about what happened at work and was not in the mood to deal with things.

 

When he got to the house, the sicker gentleman was on the couch and not too long after the arrival of the elder, vomited all over the couch and floor. The elder gathered up some cleaning supplies and cleaned the vomit. But, he didn't have the best mindset as he was furious about having to do this.

 

When the partner came down from upstairs to see what was going on the smell of the vomit, made him vomit. So, here is the elder cleaning up more vomit and boiling even more.

 

That is when the lesson to the elder happened.

 

The first gentleman looked at his partner and said, "Now I get it. Now I understand Jesus and know who he is." His partner asked how he knew. The man answered, "He is just like the elder who is giving of himself when he doesn't have to. That's the elder and that's Jesus."

 

You will know Jesus by His followers. When you see us at the homes of the Katrina victims. When you see us giving out food and clothing and shelter and $$$ to the needy. When you see us doing all the great things that we do, but the media don't like to show, that is how you will know Christ.

Well first of all translations mean different things, not that I know either way.

 

Isn't that the problem of the numerous translations?

 

Secondly, I doubt LBBC found that on a site.

 

Either/or. Doesnt change anything.

 

Thirdly, is an answer not in line with your answer considered dipping and dodging?

 

No, but answering questions with questions is.

 

For instance if I ask "How do you know God is real?" and someone replies essentially that "How do you know that he is not real?" instead of answering the question - that would be dipping and dodging.

Weak. Matthew claims that Jacob "begat" Joesph. The word "begat" is defined as a male parent procreating or generating offspring - nothing to do with royal lineage. Either the site you found that argument on is dipping and dodging as well - or Matthew did not have a good understanding of his vocabulary.

No site. From my Bible opened up between the keyboard and the monitor.

 

Matthew probably didn't.

 

God rose up 12 ordinary men to serve as his apostles. He didn't raise up the rich, the royalty, the educated. He takes small things and makes them grand. So that no one can say it was the $$$, the power or their intelligence. It was of God.

 

For instance if I ask "How do you know God is real?" and someone replies essentially that "How do you know that he is not real?" instead of answering the question - that would be dipping and dodging.

 

What do you call asking where the matter that the Big Bang came from, COME FROM, and it never being answered?

I answered your last paragraph in another thread that you never responded to. If you or I end up in Heaven, it will be by our choice not God's. God's Son came to Earth as a man and paid a price for our sins so that WE WON'T go to eternal torment.

 

Wrong. He paid a price so that WE DON'T HAVE to go to an eternal torment. Christ's death does not ensure us from fire - it only gives us an escape ladder.

 

It is not even a hard thing to take Christ as your Lord and Savior. We don't have to do a load of good works (although if you are true to being a Christ follower, you will), we don't have to live perfect lives (cause we can't), we simply have to believe in Christ as our Lord and Savior.

 

If this is true than why would an all loving God curse us with free will? Not to mention that an all knowing God should know when he creates us if or not we are going to choose to be his followers. And if he does know this, then by giving life to those he knows will not follow him - he is creating them simply to see them be tormented.

 

And your last sentence shows his mercy. Cause he tells us to pray for our enemies that our persecuting us. He tells us to turn the other cheek 70 times 7. He wants us to show MERCY when mercy is not deserved. The SAME as he did.

 

Again - there is no logical way to fathom that a God capable of letting his creations burn and be tormented for eternity is merciful or knows the first thing about teaching us how to be merciful.

 

Honestly, that is very difficult for this imperfect human to do but I try. I fail at it. But I try, again.

 

We are created in God's "perfect" image, are we not?

 

And yes, there is a connection between God and I. Jesus said how will people know me, through my followers.

 

Good story in service today to address this point. (And I truly believe this story was put in front of me to share it with you tonight. That is a God thing, not a coincidence.)

 

True story from a pastor. Two men who share their lives together as partners were being ministered to by a church. Both had AIDS and one was close to dying. A elder at the church had had a horrible day at work and came home tired and upset. He got a call from the gentleman dying and asking whether he could come over as he was very sick.

 

Being the imperfect Christian he was, the elder headed over but he wasn't happy about it. He was still boiling about what happened at work and was not in the mood to deal with things.

 

When he got to the house, the sicker gentleman was on the couch and not too long after the arrival of the elder, vomited all over the couch and floor. The elder gathered up some cleaning supplies and cleaned the vomit. But, he didn't have the best mindset as he was furious about having to do this.

 

When the partner came down from upstairs to see what was going on the smell of the vomit, made him vomit. So, here is the elder cleaning up more vomit and boiling even more.

 

That is when the lesson to the elder happened.

 

The first gentleman looked at his partner and said, "Now I get it. Now I understand Jesus and know who he is." His partner asked how he knew. The man answered, "He is just like the elder who is giving of himself when he doesn't have to. That's the elder and that's Jesus."

 

You will know Jesus by His followers. When you see us at the homes of the Katrina victims. When you see us giving out food and clothing and shelter and $$$ to the needy. When you see us doing all the great things that we do, but the media don't like to show, that is how you will know Christ.

 

I know how easy it is to grasp onto any story a pastor tells you and think it will be great fuel for your faith - I was a Christian at one point too.

 

Since we are in a debate setting - I won't spare you the popping of your bubble. Good deeds do not equal showing us Christ. You could say that if a church does something good for the community - they are attempting to be Christ like and I would buy that. I know many people that lived in New Orleans for months as part of the relief effort. Some where Christians, some where athiest/agnostic, and one was Islamic. Regardless of their faith, what they done to help the people effected by the Hurricane was just them being a great person.

 

If one really wishes to think about Christianity and being "Christ" like - I ask you this question that I often quote to friends such as you, LBBC? Every Sunday, people put on their best clothes, hop into brand new SUV's and drive past homeless shelters, prisons, charities, and community outreach offices and go to a building where someone tries to teach them to be more like Christ? Do you not see a controdiction in that?

What do you call asking where the matter that the Big Bang came from, COME FROM, and it never being answered?

 

I must have never seen you ask this question because I would have been more than happy to discuss it with you.

 

Matter is energy. Simple science tells us that energy can not be created nor destroyed.

No site. From my Bible opened up between the keyboard and the monitor.

 

Matthew probably didn't.

 

God rose up 12 ordinary men to serve as his apostles. He didn't raise up the rich, the royalty, the educated. He takes small things and makes them grand. So that no one can say it was the $$$, the power or their intelligence. It was of God.

 

You mean Jesus Christ chose 12 men to be his apostles. Jesus Christ - a human being - chose 12 apostles.

 

You want to know why I think he chose 12 "ordinary" men? 12 men who were not well resourced or well educated? Because men uneducated and not wealthy would be a lot easier to convince that he was the "Son of God."