Seriously? You're going to polarize it like that?

 

We need to let people in fairly and legally in conjunction with a tighter border. Border security is never going to be effective without a better legal immigration system.

Why not, you referred to our immigration system in much the same light.

Why not, you referred to our immigration system in much the same light.

 

How so?

Come on, RTS. What does that mean?

 

You don't see an inconsistency in saying that you can burn the flag, drag it around on the ground, use it as a diaper but you can't fly another country's flag above the US flag?

What do you mean what do I mean? You think freedom comes without a cost?

How so?

That's how I kind of saw these posts.

And it is such a peachy process to immigrate legally. The beauracracy in the State Department is such a muddled mess it's becoming hard for even Americans to come and go legally. As far as past immigrants coming over, assimilating and flourishing, that isn't true as most were forced into ghettos or slums. It wasn't before the second or third generations were they able to successfully assimilate.

 

It's not difficult if you fluently speak English, are educated and have a lot of money. Or a few years to sit and wait. And the resources to deal with the endless bureaucratic paperwork. Even then there's only a gambler's chance you'll get in. How many people who are starving, have a family and need a job can deal with this?

That's how I kind of saw these posts.

 

Where am I wrong?

Okay, so that leads to me three questions:

 

1. Punishment for violating said code?

 

2. Could a Local or State Police Officer cuff and stuff said violator?

 

3. Would this have to be under the authority of the FBI? Secret Service? Who would have the enforcement of this Code under their jurisdiction? I'm sure we ALL would agree that handling this Code violation in a vigilante fashion is probably the wrong approach.

 

Is there a penalty for violating the above?

The code does not impose penalties for misuse of the United States Flag. That is left to the states and to the federal government for the District of Columbia. Each state has its own flag law

Where am I wrong?

Point is there is a right way and a wrong way. You're a little harsh on the system as far as how long it takes. How long should it take? What's your plan to shorten it?

You claim you have to have a lot of money to make it here, that's just not true. Plenty of legal immigrants made it here with next to nothing.

None of my ancestors that came here were forced into ghettos or slums.

Point is there is a right way and a wrong way. You're a little harsh on the system as far as how long it takes. How long should it take? What's your plan to shorten it?

 

I don't know how long it should take, but it is nowhere near efficient. The State Department has nothing close to the number of people they need to process the applications. I'm certain, like in any bureaucracy, there is a great deal of wheel spinning and unnecessary overlap as well. They don't let enough people in, especially in technology sectors, but that is irrelevant right now.

 

You claim you have to have a lot of money to make it here, that's just not true. Plenty of legal immigrants made it here with next to nothing.

 

I didn't say you had to. But if you don't it is certainly and uphill battle, especially coming from a developing nation where resources, like the internet, are limited. A lot of well off people have their companies or lawyers work to facilitate the process, a poor person who wants to do manual labor isn't afforded that advantage.

 

None of my ancestors that came here were forced into ghettos or slums.

 

Again, that is not what I said. PepRock alluded to what I was talking about with the Know-Nothing party. There has always been a degree of bigotry and xenophobia regarding immigrants in this country. Here is a quote from around the turn of the century in the Chicago Post regarding the Irish "The Irish fill our prisons, our poor houses...Scratch a convict or a pauper, and the chances are that you tickle the skin of an Irish Catholic. Putting them on a boat and sending them home would end crime in this country." It sounds eerily similar to what some say today about Latin American immigrants.

I don't know how long it should take, but it is nowhere near efficient. The State Department has nothing close to the number of people they need to process the applications. I'm certain, like in any bureaucracy, there is a great deal of wheel spinning and unnecessary overlap as well. They don't let enough people in, especially in technology sectors, but that is irrelevant right now.

 

 

 

I didn't say you had to. But if you don't it is certainly and uphill battle, especially coming from a developing nation where resources, like the internet, are limited. A lot of well off people have their companies or lawyers work to facilitate the process, a poor person who wants to do manual labor isn't afforded that advantage.

 

 

 

Again, that is not what I said. PepRock alluded to what I was talking about with the Know-Nothing party. There has always been a degree of bigotry and xenophobia regarding immigrants in this country. Here is a quote from around the turn of the century in the Chicago Post regarding the Irish "The Irish fill our prisons, our poor houses...Scratch a convict or a pauper, and the chances are that you tickle the skin of an Irish Catholic. Putting them on a boat and sending them home would end crime in this country." It sounds eerily similar to what some say today about Latin American immigrants.

Points well taken.

 

On your last point, I know how bad it was for the Irish, me being half Irish, I've heard plenty. That was true in big cities like NY and Chicago but not so much in smaller cities and towns.

As for the ire towards Latin American immigrants, I disagree with you totally. The indignation is toward the illegal immigrants, not Latinos as a whole IMO.

Flying that flag in that manner suggest that the owner of the building is claiming that Mexican territory. That is why the Veteran was upset, but the owner is also protected by property rights and laws, so two wrongs don't make a right. But make no mistake, technically flying the flag in that manner is a sign of a claim of sovereignty and ownership and therefore an act of war... which is why it is illegal. But when rednecks fly the Confederate flag above the US flag they are doing the same thing.

People need to remember the sad legacy of Bloody Monday and not take this stuff too far, but there is one key difference in this situation, immigrants also need to remember that it is the US first and nation of origin second. The Irish Catholics were beaten to death for voting or just being near the polls in Louisville in 1850 urged on by the local Know-Nothing paper (a direct precursor to the one we still have) The nativist back then were killing them for trying to become part of the American system. While this owner has flown the flag in a manner that suggest they would prefer Mexican sovereignty over American.

Wow, I'm sorry I missed all the stuff yesterday!

 

I didn't see anyone comment on this scenario but maybe it's not as prevelant in KY as in VA or NC or other parts of the south.

 

I have seen the Confederate Battle Flag flown above the US on many occasions on property. Yet no one has treated that individual the way many of you feel about the Mexican flag.

 

I too have problems with the current immigration crisis. But I'm wondering if we have a double standard for this scenario versus the Confederate one. Are we ignoring the Southern displays that occur throughout this region and offended only by a "forgeign" presence?

 

I also wonder about the Mexican flag in CA or TX. Afterall, it flew there once before before the Anglos took the territory. But that's another thought.

 

 

Yes, let's invade Mexico because they are poor and share a border with us. The immigrants coming over are trying to make a better life for themselves; I can't fault another human for doing that.

QUOTE]

 

But they come over illegally... don't pay taxes, drive up healthcare due to no insurance and our hospitals having to treat them. A large portion of our prisons contain illegal immigrants from Mexico.

 

If they are going to come here, do it legally and follow the rules and understand it is America. You nor I could walk into France and set up shop or anything other mainstream country. Abide by the same rules natural born Americans do and its not an issue.

I knew that one was coming. However, in CM's argument, he invoked a Civil War situation as supporting evidence. I figured I missed the declaration.

 

I actually know a TON of people who ridiculously say we may have a civil war with them some day. I agree it sounds ridculous. But there are several conspirators out there who say they are slowly trying to take over terrorites by bringing tons of immigrants into certain spots in the US... primarily the West and SW trying to build up their own communties.

 

They should not come here and immediately try to segregate themselves from us. If they are going to do that why even come? I don't know where things are headed but in the next 25 years it should be interesting. Hopefully, all for the best.

The code does not impose penalties for misuse of the United States Flag. That is left to the states and to the federal government for the District of Columbia. Each state has its own flag law

 

Gotcha.

What do you mean what do I mean? You think freedom comes without a cost?

 

Do me a favor and tie your cliches, as right as they are, to this discussion.