June 5, 200719 yr Ok but how many guys in this league Drive in 100, Score 100 and walk 100 times and hit 40 HRs? Not many. Is Lidge really worth that in your eyes? If he some more portection we wouldn't be talking about how much he strikes out. Protection is overrated. If he can't make contact enough nobody is going to be afraid of him in big spots.
June 5, 200719 yr IMO some of you are failing to realize a few things: 1. You're not getting a closer for a backup OF or Mike Stanton. You have to trade high quality for a closer. 2. Dunn's contract MUST be considered into the equation. If money was not a factor, you keep Dunn and hope he figures out how to produce in the clutch. Unfortunately, money is not in endless supply. 3. I'd most likely have to have a pitching prospect in the deal as well. 4. The bullpen is the biggest problem. Moving Stormy to the 8th and bringing in a closer who did this in his supposed "bad year" in closing situations: 28 appearances with ZERO earned runs. 6 appearances with 1 earned run allowed. 3 appearances with 2 earned runs allowed. 1 with 4 will increase the number of wins the Reds achieve. The division is so bad that it will not take a lot of 8th and 9th inning shutdowns to propel the Reds up the ladder. I think sometimes we get caught up in a "fantasty league" mindset where the way a team is structured and how it can produce wins is less important than offensive stats . What's the goal?
June 5, 200719 yr If he some more portection we wouldn't be talking about how much he strikes out. Yes we would. Put him in the Yankee's lineup, he would strikeout hust as much, just not walk as much.
June 5, 200719 yr Protection is overrated. If he can't make contact enough nobody is going to be afraid of him in big spots. Ok without protection how many guys put up those numbers every year?
June 5, 200719 yr Ok but how many guys in this league Drive in 100, Score 100 and walk 100 times and hit 40 HRs? Not many. Is Lidge really worth that in your eyes? If he some more portection we wouldn't be talking about how much he strikes out. I'm not arguing that he isn't a very effective run producer, but he didn't knock in 100 last year and if you hit 40 HR's you should knock in 100 and score 100.
June 5, 200719 yr 2-11= 5.5 6-38= 6.3333 Blown saves to saves. However I am only using his numbers as of this year and Lidge's from last year. Correct math would be Save % Weathers: 84.6 Lidge (2006): 84.2 However, we're comparing only 13 opps to 38 opps so the validity of the numeric comparison is suspect.
June 5, 200719 yr Ok but how many guys in this league Drive in 100, Score 100 and walk 100 times and hit 40 HRs? Not many. Is Lidge really worth that in your eyes? If he some more portection we wouldn't be talking about how much he strikes out. I just read a book , and I don't remember the exact results, but an economics professor showed that the theory of "protection" does not hold up under statistical analysis.
June 5, 200719 yr As I said sometime earlier in this thread (I've been a little busy refuting others to remember where), I'm a Dunn fan. Great potential if he ever figures out how to hit. He produces runs TODAY and that's a great benefit to the Reds. The downside is numbers in clutch situations. That's a killer on a team that needs EVERY win it actually has a chance to get. I used to think closers were a dime a dozen. I no longer am of that persuasion. They're hard to find and worth every penny if they are consistent. I'm coming into this thread late, but I'm on board with you. Bottom line: Hitting is ahead of pitching in today's game, and pretty much every closer runs into a tough stretch at some point. I like what Dunn does, but his inability to produce in the clutch disturbs me. I think Dunn is imminently more replacable than a guy who throws 95+ with movement and has proven himself an effective closer. I'm willing to take my chances with keeping a true leadoff-type guy like Hopper in every day alongside Hobbs, The Kid and Farney. Besides, we pretty much all agree that this team won't be ready for prime-time for at least another year, and that gives the younger power guys in the minors time to get ready. Plus, a big part of why Cincy is so hapless against leftys has to do with Dunn; Conine can't be any worse in LF than Dunn on those days.
June 5, 200719 yr Correct math would be Save % Weathers: 84.6 Lidge (2006): 84.2 However, we're comparing only 13 opps to 38 opps so the validity of the numeric comparison is suspect. They are both correct just different ways of looking at it. Taking those numbers and making them an argument is semi weak. Even thought I did it. :lol:
June 5, 200719 yr I'm not arguing that he isn't a very effective run producer, but he didn't knock in 100 last year and if you hit 40 HR's you should knock in 100 and score 100. If you hit 40 HRs and are a slugger worth his salt, you're driving in 125+ runs, and doing it when it matters most, which Dunn can't.
June 5, 200719 yr I just read a book , and I don't remember the exact results, but an economics professor showed that the theory of "protection" does not hold up under statistical analysis. Ok that doesn't ever matter because he puts up very good numbers without it. No one will answer me how many guys put up the numbers Dunn does year in and year out.
June 5, 200719 yr If you hit 40 HRs and are a slugger worth his salt, you're driving in 125+ runs, and doing it when it matters most, which Dunn can't. :thumb: :thumb:
June 5, 200719 yr Ok without protection how many guys put up those numbers every year? A lot of teams "best hitters" knock in 90-100 runs no matter who hits behind them. As for the protection issue: Berkman before this year did. Aramis Ramirez did last year. Jason Bay did too I think. Carlos Lee did while in Milwaukee last year. If you consider an injured Rolen or a rapidly declining Edmonds protection we can leave Pujols off the list. Do you want me to start on other divisions?
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