I think it's important to note that at the time of his objections to Vietnam he spent three years, in his prime, stripped of his title and not allowed to box. Those are three years he could have spend dominating and entertaining. Then he comes back and beats Foreman and Frazier.

 

That was my point in my first post in this thread. Many people are too young to know the turmoil of the times, and exactly what he experienced. Others still maintain that his motives were less than noble, yet I've yet to understand the nobility of blind obedience. But, then, I guess that's why I'm neither military nor married.

That was my point in my first post in this thread. Many people are too young to know the turmoil of the times, and exactly what he experienced. Others still maintain that his motives were less than noble, yet I've yet to understand the nobility of blind obedience. But, then, I guess that's why I'm neither military or married.

 

 

Being able to be blindly obedient is probably why I was successful in the military and am able to stay married to Henry:jump:

Being able to be blindly obedient is probably why I was successful in the military and am able to stay married to Henry:jump:

 

It works for some.....I'm too....welll.....not very obedient.

I'll take a young Mike Tyson anytime.

This would have been a mismatch. Ali was bigger, faster and more skilled. Plus he didn't have a lisp.

It works for some.....I'm too....welll.....not very obedient.

Neither is LN.

Wasn't our country founded on religious freedom?

Yes it was-but if your religion causes you to do something that against the laws of the government - then that is wrong!!!

Practicing your religious freedom is one thing but what he did is another story.

 

I should've said adhere- Maybe I wasn't too clear...

What is scary is that this guy refused the draft due to the strict belief under the law of Allah...

How many christian religions ask you not to do something that is considered the law?

 

So if you think that is scary, you don't understand much.

Go study up on the fear in Europe right now-

See, I can respectfully disagree with this, but understand the sentiment. His refusal to join the military left a bad taste in many people's minds. I think my dad, who fought in Vietnam, is rather ambivalent toward Ali as a result.

 

But to me, he is The Champ. And the type of performer boxing desperately needs to prevent its steady devolution into irrelevance.

 

 

Otis! My man!

Yes it was-but if your religion causes you to do something that against the laws of the government - then that is wrong!!!

Practicing your religious freedom is one thing but what he did is another story.

 

I should've said adhere- Maybe I wasn't too clear...

What is scary is that this guy refused the draft due to the strict belief under the law of Allah...

How many christian religions ask you not to do something that is considered the law?

 

So if you think that is scary, you don't understand much.

Go study up on the fear in Europe right now-

Ali's faith says not to go to war unless declared by Allah. In the Christian faith there are the ten commandments. So 'Thou shall not murder' should only be followed unless your government tells you to do so?

That may be one of the scariest statement i have seen on this board.

 

 

What is scary advocating that religious groups should respect civil law? Have you considered the converse? What if religious groups were allowed to disrespect civil authority. Now that would be scary.

Ali's faith says not to go to war unless declared by Allah. In the Christian faith there are the ten commandments. So 'Thou shall not murder' should only be followed unless your government tells you to do so?

 

 

Where does one get the list of wars that has been declared by Allah?

I find it ironic that he would not fight for his country but he would for money.

Yes it was-but if your religion causes you to do something that against the laws of the government - then that is wrong!!!

Practicing your religious freedom is one thing but what he did is another story.

 

I should've said adhere- Maybe I wasn't too clear...

What is scary is that this guy refused the draft due to the strict belief under the law of Allah...

How many christian religions ask you not to do something that is considered the law?

 

So if you think that is scary, you don't understand much.

Go study up on the fear in Europe right now-

 

Thanks, but I understand many things.

 

Wait, maybe I don't. I don't understand why that in a country based on religious freedom that the religious laws of Islam are less valid than the religious laws of Christianity. I don't understand why so many people feel that by not supporting a war that you are are anti-American. I don't understand why there are still people in this country that think that the war in Iraq was a direct result of 9/11 and that Saddam and Osama were "two peas in a pod". And I don't understand why people that are so adamant that our country be free don't actually want people to have freedom.

 

Maybe we should study up on Islam and find out what the religion is actually about, rather than letting our views be skewed by the extremists. I honestly don't want non-Christians to have their perception of Christianity tainted by Christian extremist groups such as the Westboro Church "ladies" or other groups that hold the bible in one hand and spew hate from their lips.

 

I'm somewhat off topic, I know. My steam has just kind of built up a little too much I guess.:irked:

He may or may not have been a coward. My guess is only Ali knows.

 

If he refused to serve and did dodge the draft (I honestly don't remember) then I have big problems with him. And as someone who volunteered to serve my country I have every right to have those problems with him.

 

I don't agree with the draft. Never have. But this country cannot be successfully run if we allow (or even worse, show some kind of great respect for) people who disobey every law that they don't personally agree with. People who bomb abortion clinics because they don't agree that abortion should be legal, are wrong. People who don't wear seatbelts or require their children to wear them because they don't agree with the law, are wrong. People who smoke pot because they think it should be legal, are wrong. And people who refused to serve when they were drafted, are wrong. "Standing up for your beliefs" when it violates the law, is wrong. People in this country used to understand that principle, but its been lost. If you disagree with the law, work hard to have it changed, but until then comply with it. Perhaps if we had more respect for authority and the law, we would have near the discipline problems we have in school and on the streets. When we hold people up for their noble defiance of the law, just what message are we sending?

 

Rockmom, I've got a feeling that if one of your children disobeyed one of your rules, even if they legitimately felt you were wrong, you might not be as understanding and supportive of their position as you seem to be of Ali. But that's just my guess:banana:.

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: I said on my last post on this thread that I was done with it so I guess that I am gvoing to have to go back on that statement. This is one GREAT post leatherneck!! :banana: . Now I am done.

I find it ironic that he would not fight for his country but he would for money.

I think there is a little difference between mutual boxing and killing people...

Where does one get the list of wars that has been declared by Allah?

I'm just stating the facts man, I don't claim to know anything about the religion.