For the record, I simply copied and linked to information regarding Ali. Whether or not I agree with the principles of Islam was not stated, nor implied by me.

 

But, I do have a question....how is the attitude of the Islamic religion toward interracial relationships any different than many people who proclaim to be Christian? If you remember, those most against the Civil Rights Movement and Abolition were also proclaiming their resistance in Biblical passages.

 

I don't agree with many things that are believed by many other religions. I do, however, respect and recognize their rights in America that are guaranteed under the Constitution.

I don't agree either with teachings of segregation, I don't agree with holding anyone down... I don;t hate someone because of who they are or what religion they belong to.

.I think it is wrong if a religion doesn't expect you to honor the laws of where you live (aka being a law abiding citizen). He refused the draft with saying his religion only fights if it is a matter of Jihad. Well that law was written in and for Islamic run countries, they protect their country under the name of Allah- He was in America then - so he would fight if it was an uprising of Islam -v- American Govt., but not America protecting innocent citizens of Vietnam?

 

I noted that I copied that statement from your link you provided-

I realize you were only posting statements/records of what you had found.

 

The problem I do have is that the rights under our American Constitution that gives them rights, and they will not support our civil laws- i.e. The Draft (at that given time, or any time).

 

That is the beauty of America, you can be who you want to be- that is part of being an American. But when you don't want to integrate with us then you should stay in your secular part of the country, if white man is so bad or anybody that is "westernized", then why live with us?

 

Do people realize the hatred that is being taught in these mosques across our country and on our college campuses? And it is all in hating America and what it stands for, but they are here, taking advantge of our college education, our freedom, but hating us... I have a problem with that.

That is having your cake and eating it too.

 

You see they couldn't be that way from where they come from- any resistence would be their death....

 

And I do believe there are good Muslims (no I don't believe that all are bad)

I do believe that Radical Islam is on the rise, and I don't believe they are a small minority group like we are being led to try to believe.

Radical Islam is being indocrinated to as much as little kids-

 

Has anyone recently read of the threats of the Taliban against Christians in that part of their world?

Can no one see that it will not be safe or possible to be a Christian in that part of the world?

I don't agree either with teachings of segregation, I don't agree with holding anyone down... I don;t hate someone because of who they are or what religion they belong to.

.I think it is wrong if a religion doesn't expect you to honor the laws of where you live (aka being a law abiding citizen). He refused the draft with saying his religion only fights if it is a matter of Jihad. Well that law was written in and for Islamic run countries, they protect their country under the name of Allah- He was in America then - so he would fight if it was an uprising of Islam -v- American Govt., but not America protecting innocent citizens of Vietnam?

 

I noted that I copied that statement from your link you provided-

I realize you were only posting statements/records of what you had found.

 

The problem I do have is that the rights under our American Constitution that gives them rights, and they will not support our civil laws- i.e. The Draft (at that given time, or any time).

 

That is the beauty of America, you can be who you want to be- that is part of being an American. But when you don't want to integrate with us then you should stay in your secular part of the country, if white man is so bad or anybody that is "westernized", then why live with us?

 

Do people realize the hatred that is being taught in these mosques across our country and on our college campuses? And it is all in hating America and what it stands for, but they are here, taking advantge of our college education, our freedom, but hating us... I have a problem with that.

That is having your cake and eating it too.

 

You see they couldn't be that way from where they come from- any resistence would be their death....

 

And I do believe there are good Muslims (no I don't believe that all are bad)

I do believe that Radical Islam is on the rise, and I don't believe they are a small minority group like we are being led to try to believe.

Radical Islam is being indocrinated to as much as little kids-

 

Has anyone recently read of the threats of the Taliban against Christians in that part of their world?

Can no one see that it will not be safe or possible to be a Christian in that part of the world?

 

Fear and paranoia on the part of Christians in America will threaten those who peacefuly practice Islam, as well. That is my fear.

Ali claimed white people hated black people, well I am sure there are some that did then and do now.

AND vise-versa...

That statement is blown out of proportion, because I for one have many black friends, and I cherish them as much as I cherish my white friends, and I am sure there are many- many other people that feel the same way!

 

We can agree on this! :thumb:

All causes seek attractive individuals who can be exploited for their purposes. Clay/Ali filled the bill better than do most such "selected" individuals.

There in lies the Catch-22 of the government's status of conceintious objector. You think his reason wasn't legitimate. He believed it was. How can one person (or governmental entity) say what is to be a legitimate "conscience" of another?

A CO of convinience. When you join an organization that doesn't believe in you going to war, partially because you have to go to war, Is that legitimate? The law has the right to decide. If he would not have been a famous person, he would have rightly been in prison.

A CO of convinience. When you join an organization that doesn't believe in you going to war, partially because you have to go to war, Is that legitimate? The law has the right to decide. If he would not have been a famous person, he would have rightly been in prison.

 

 

If you read what I posted above, I don't believe he joined an organization out of convenience. He'd been exploring the religion long before he joined. In addition, in 1964, he failed the draftee test, the same year he formalizied his entry into the Nation of Islam. His status was changed by the Board in 1966 and then the attempt to draft him....2 years after they'd rejected him. In addition, the Supreme Court over turned his conviction in 1971.

If you read what I posted above, I don't believe he joined an organization out of convenience. He'd been exploring the religion long before he joined. In addition, in 1964, he failed the draftee test, the same year he formalizied his entry into the Nation of Islam. His status was changed by the Board in 1966 and then the attempt to draft him....2 years after they'd rejected him. In addition, the Supreme Court over turned his conviction in 1971.

Yes they did. I suppose the Supreme Court of the 70's made a great many other rulings that I don't agree with as well. Oh well, as long as someone was willing to fight and die so he could live in a land where he is allowed to CO.

Did he legally change his name?

But hey-if different ones wants to look through all this with rose-colored glasses and be a flower toting pansy- then so be it... Just remember who fights/fought to give that freedom to be that way...

 

And as far as a list of Islamic wars- Arabs have been fighting each other since the dawning of their time!!!!!!!!!!!!

They have so many secular groups, and if one dares to show signs of being "westernize" then they are removed from power!

 

Oh yeah and one more thing- "Bad America"- Saddam should've never been attacked... He only used weapons of M.D. on his own people, and raped and plundered thought-out his country, and cut off hands, fingers, tounges on men that resisted his regime- oh yeah raped their wives and daughters, killed athletes for not scoring enough field goals in soccer games.

Yes by all means, we should have left this man alone, he was no threat to no one, he would never use nuclear capabilites on us or our foreign interests if he had the chance!

 

I can give you a list of family members that served our country to protect our freedom, including my father who fought in Vietnam and supported Ali's decision.

 

Arabs and Muslims are not the only groups that have been "fighting since the dawn of time".

 

No one denies that Sadaam was a bad, evil man. However, he was still not the mastermind (or responsible in anyway, for that matter) behind 9/11, so I get tired of hearing 9/11 as an excuse for the invasion of Iraq.

Did he legally change his name?

 

Yes, and it also bears mentioning that Ali distanced himself from the Nation of Islam (and their segregationist teachings that many of you are harping on about) as time went on. Part of that was due to his suspicion that NOI had Malcolm X whacked, and part of that because of the NOI's efforts to exercise control over his career and subsequent earnings.

 

And it also bears mentioning for those harping on about "wars fought in the name of Allah/Islam:" You don't want to go there, because Christianity's record on this subject is also quite spotty.

Yes they did. I suppose the Supreme Court of the 70's made a great many other rulings that I don't agree with as well. Oh well, as long as someone was willing to fight and die so he could live in a land where he is allowed to CO.

 

So, how do you feel about people who choose not to join the military now that there's no longer a draft?

 

In the end, IMO, the institution of a draft was, is, and always a bad idea. These days, no one is called a coward or accused of shirking their duty because they don't join the military and go to fight in Iraq. Those who have their reasons not to are simply not known. No one should be forced to fight in any war, much less one to which they feel morally opposed. I simply can't fathom why there are still people who feel that those who didn't want to fight in Viet Nam, for whatever reason, were some sort of traitors. If hindsight has taught us that the draft was not a good idea, shouldn't it stand to reason that those who opposed the draft were not anything more than Americans fighting for their own rights?

Anyone that wants to praise him certainly has that right. As a DAV, I could care less about him and if I never had to hear his name mentioned again, I'd be even happier.

Yes I guess it would make more since to stand in a ring for 15 rounds and beat each other in the head and ribs for prize money....

I don't get your point here.

So, how do you feel about people who choose not to join the military now that there's no longer a draft?

 

In the end, IMO, the institution of a draft was, is, and always a bad idea.

 

I agree although my reasoning is different from yours. However, since we are off topic anyway, let me propose a hypothetical question. With the unpopularity of the current war and the current administration, let's imagine that the military could not even recruit enough qualified personel to maintain even the bare minimum to mount a defense in the event of an attack. What would be your solution?

A CO of convinience. When you join an organization that doesn't believe in you going to war, partially because you have to go to war, Is that legitimate? The law has the right to decide. If he would not have been a famous person, he would have rightly been in prison.

Except that the supreme court overturned his conviction.