Whatever you want us to believe Ms. Steinem.

 

You and RTS need to coordinate. He just called me Maureen Dowd in another thread...and called me Nancy Pelosi yesterday in that same thread! :lol:

Look at how you have come back at my responses when women were brought up. If that wasn't trick questions then I don't know what is?

 

....

 

Out of curiosity, I did a search and can't find any instnace that I've discussed women with you in the past. :confused: In this thread, all I've done is ask for the answer to my simple question...:confused:

I find this Discussion of Debate Very entertaining.:thumb: It's Educational to me.:thumb:

We who follow the teachings of Elijah Muhammad don't want to be forced to integrate. Integration is wrong. We don't want to live with the white man; that's all.[3]

 

NOW- I just copied the above statement from our tolerant moderator's post ...

NOW IF IT IS WRONG TO INTEGRATE WITH WHITE PEOPLE, and that is what being an American is all about (integrating with different walks of life and people)... AND IF THAT IS WRONG, YOU SHOULD NOT BE HERE!

That was some points I made that was sadly responded to as scary..

 

So now you have it for yourself the quoting of Elijah (I believe was Mohmand/their prophet's son).

 

Now that is what is scary! NOT WHAT I SAID-

 

 

And the inter-racial thing- How would that fly if The Pope came out and made that statement?

How would it go over if he or some religious leader says "You are out of your mind if you let your white sons and daughters marry a black man or woman"?

I think that person would be considered a racist?

 

Ali claimed white people hated black people, well I am sure there are some that did then and do now.

AND vise-versa...

That statement is blown out of proportion, because I for one have many black friends, and I cherish them as much as I cherish my white friends, and I am sure there are many- many other people that feel the same way!

 

 

 

One thing that needs to be mentioned is that this was a very different country, racially, during the time of Elijah Muhammad's reign. "Jim Crow" was still being practiced in many parts of this country. Which, by the way, was the law of the land.

 

Black people were being lynched. Our homes and church's were being bombed. In the south many blacks had to pass a test to vote. Which, by the way, was set up so that they couldn't possibly pass it.

 

Events such as I have mentioned gave rise to the Black separatist movement and the Black Panther Party. There were many blacks, back then, who felt that they should fight fire with fire. They didn't subscribe to the non-violent movement of Dr. King.

I am also old enough to Remember Ali as a Boxer.

Because they're too hysterical and just not cut out for it, the majority that is.

You aren't far off with this statement. The other day our weather alert went off and the women in our office was running around like a bunch of chickens with their heads cut off. :irked: :lol:

 

First off, I have a difficult time referring to any person as "great" and I don't know enough about Ali to discuss anything about him outside of sports. There isn't anyone who can say that he wasn't a good boxer. I also don't think there is anyone who can't say that he hasn't been a wonderful spokesman for the Commonwealth of Kentucky. It hurts my heart to say this but I don't think we've come a long way since Ali's younger years. For me to make a bad statement against him and what he did, I think I would have had to have been a young black man growing up next to him and experiencing the same things as he was and I wasn't. Perhaps if he could go back to that time, he might change somethings that he did and perhaps he wouldn't. We can't dictate how someone lives their life and I think he was/is man enough to take any knocks that anyone has with the choices that he made at that point in time. As they always say, until you walk a mile in his shoes. Well I am telling you this, I am lucky that I never had to walk those miles and I am truly sorry that anyone in this nation had to walk them then and continue to walk them now.

Put Michael Jordan in a pair of boxing trunks.

Put a charimatic Tiger Woods in a pair of boxing trunks.

and you have Ali.

 

And add in the fact that he took a very unpopular stand on a hot political issue at great personal cost to himself (eg. years of boxing in the prime of his career, the money he could have earned, etc), was widely criticized for his stance, then later, many realized that it is okay to stand up for your beliefs even if it is unpopular at the time.

 

He also changed the heavyweight division with his ability, style, flair, and his funloving smacktalk made people love him or hate him. An American icon, .... absolutely!!!

Supporters of the right to espouse questionable and unpopular religious beliefs should report to the Pat Robertson thread immediately!

One cannot help but wonder how much dislike of Ali was and is based in racism. With the times he came up and his willingness to speak his mind, a person might think that is the basis for much of it.

.

 

I agree with this statement. There is a hint of racism against a young man or girl standing up for what they believe, and being vocal. This happens even today. Thank you for pointing that out Goheard96.

^It's not just racism, anytime someone stands up for what they believe there will be those who are against them. It's a little something called human nature.

I haven’t read through every post, but I just don’t see what his religious convictions have to do with how good of a boxer Ali was. It seems to me that is an entirely separate issue for an entirely different thread. As to the boxing question, Ali was the greatest of all time and was as charismatic as they come. I think he’s the all-time greatest sports legend, just my opinion.

I haven’t read through every post, but I just don’t see what his religious convictions have to do with how good of a boxer Ali was. It seems to me that is an entirely separate issue for an entirely different thread. As to the boxing question, Ali was the greatest of all time and was as charismatic as they come. I think he’s the all-time greatest sports legend, just my opinion.

The original question was how did Ali go from a sports legend to an American icon. His religious convictions and his stance on the Vietnam War brought him out of the sports world and into the American culture as an American icon. How he went from a disliked figure to a beloved figure, is a great question.

 

I also wonder if the Parkinson disease has also played a part. As you see him now, you have to feel a sense of sadness and pity for someone that MADE his image by his blazing fast reflexes and his quick wit and his mouth to someone that cannot hold his hands still and basically cannot speak like we are used to Ali speaking.

 

I wonder if that disease has soften the hearts of those that did not like him and elevated him for those that did.

The original question was how did Ali go from a sports legend to an American icon. His religious convictions and his stance on the Vietnam War brought him out of the sports world and into the American culture as an American icon. How he went from a disliked figure to a beloved figure, is a great question.

 

I also wonder if the Parkinson disease has also played a part. As you see him now, you have to feel a sense of sadness and pity for someone that MADE his image by his blazing fast reflexes and his quick wit and his mouth to someone that cannot hold his hands still and basically cannot speak like we are used to Ali speaking.

 

I wonder if that disease has soften the hearts of those that did not like him and elevated him for those that did.

 

I'm betting no on the bolded part with a great many people. With some, the best you might hope for is ambivalence, kind of like me with Jerry Falwell.

You aren't far off with this statement. The other day our weather alert went off and the women in our office was running around like a bunch of chickens with their heads cut off. :irked: :lol:

 

First off, I have a difficult time referring to any person as "great" and I don't know enough about Ali to discuss anything about him outside of sports. There isn't anyone who can say that he wasn't a good boxer. I also don't think there is anyone who can't say that he hasn't been a wonderful spokesman for the Commonwealth of Kentucky. It hurts my heart to say this but I don't think we've come a long way since Ali's younger years. For me to make a bad statement against him and what he did, I think I would have had to have been a young black man growing up next to him and experiencing the same things as he was and I wasn't. Perhaps if he could go back to that time, he might change somethings that he did and perhaps he wouldn't. We can't dictate how someone lives their life and I think he was/is man enough to take any knocks that anyone has with the choices that he made at that point in time. As they always say, until you walk a mile in his shoes. Well I am telling you this, I am lucky that I never had to walk those miles and I am truly sorry that anyone in this nation had to walk them then and continue to walk them now.

 

I agree with this statement, other than the bolded part. For many years, Ali never said much about L'ville or Ky, and I think a lot of that had to do with his poor treatment when he returned from the Olympics. That may have been healed in recent years with Louisville's efforts to re-embrace him through the Ali Center.

The original question was how did Ali go from a sports legend to an American icon. His religious convictions and his stance on the Vietnam War brought him out of the sports world and into the American culture as an American icon. How he went from a disliked figure to a beloved figure, is a great question.

 

I also wonder if the Parkinson disease has also played a part. As you see him now, you have to feel a sense of sadness and pity for someone that MADE his image by his blazing fast reflexes and his quick wit and his mouth to someone that cannot hold his hands still and basically cannot speak like we are used to Ali speaking.

 

I wonder if that disease has soften the hearts of those that did not like him and elevated him for those that did.

So his religious convictions and his stance on the Vietnam War is what made him an American icon? I totally disagree.