4 hours ago, okie1 said:

They will look like world beaters.  A lot of Cals teams hit rough stretches this time of year only to come out of it and play good ball.  Too much talent on that roster not to figure it out.  

Too many UK folks are crowing about Cal and his demise...I hope we don't get a face full of crow to eat on Feb 1st.

This was the case the majority of his time at UK. Up until the 2020 season, Cal truly did always have his teams playing their best come tournament time. Now ever since the tournament got cancelled because of Covid. His teams and obviously success has not been the same. That covid year really seem to destroy Cal as his teams haven’t been the same since.
 

His first 10 years or so at UK were great, the last 4 years not so much. However, it is truly sad to see some UK fans take pleasure in his demise, when he was the one that came in and made UK fan. His biggest mistake was not taking the UCLA job after 2019. He was correct when he said his first year the UK job is a 10 years at max type of job. Pitino was smart to get out by by year 10 and why UK fans still drool over him and his success. The same would have been said for Cal if he left by year 10. Staying though got fans to turn again him once things went bad, which they definitely did go bad. No argument there. 

1 hour ago, 16thBBall Fan said:

This is so true it actually started in the fall of the2020 season. Here is a list below from from Dec. 1, 2020 until Dec. 17, 2022.

To show how bad the chart below shows the Cats were 4-13 in that stretch. It tied the same mark set by the 2007-2009 Kentucky team. I think we all remember those years as well.

This was for sure not the gold standard. ?

         Kentucky vs. AP Top 25 teams since the 2019-20 season

Date	Opponent	Result	Site
12/17/2022	#16 UCLA	L 63-53	CBS Sports Classic, New York, NY
11/20/2022	#2 Gonzaga	L 88-72	Spokane, WA
3/12/2022	#9 Tennessee	L 69-62	SEC Tournament, Tampa, FL
2/26/2022	#18 Arkansas	L 75-73	Fayetteville, AR
2/19/2022	#25 Alabama	W 90-81	Lexington, KY
2/15/2022	#16 Tennessee	L 76-63	Knoxville, TN
1/29/2022	#5 Kansas	W 80-62	Lawrence, KS
1/22/2022	#2 Auburn	L 80-71	Auburn, AL
1/15/2022	#22 Tennessee	W 107-79	Lexington, KY
1/4/2022	#21 LSU	L 65-60	Baton Rouge, LA
11/9/2021	#9 Duke	L 79-71	Champions Classic, New York, NY
2/20/2021	#19 Tennessee	W 70-55	Knoxville, TN
2/6/2021	#11 Tennessee	L 82-71	Lexington, KY
2/3/2021	#18 Missouri	L 75-70	Columbia, MO
1/26/2021	#9 Alabama	L 70-59	Tuscaloosa, AL
12/19/2020	#22 North Carolina	L 75-63	CBS Sports Classic, Cleveland, OH
12/1/2020	#7 Kansas	L 65-62	Champions Classic, Indianapolis, IN

Again, I've never gotten overly worked up over the weird 2020-2021 season (the bottom six you list). That whole timeframe I just pretend didn't happen in sports. What did UK end up going, 9-16? Maybe in a normal year they miss the tournament, but they aren't that bad. Same with Duke, finishing 13-11 and missing the tournament. Both heavily relying on Freshman with no preseason action. Michigan State was 15-13, etc. But, the numbers are what they are.

In my circles a lot of fans got off the Cal train because of the ‘21-‘22 season with one of the less talented Cal era rosters losing to 15th seeded St. Peter’s.  We clearly had a great player, Shaedon Sharpe, never seeing game time for UK because Cal thought it might hurt his perceived draft value.  Cal knew, or should have known he would be leaving as soon as analysts said he was ready.  This reinforced Cal was much more for individual player development than the team.  He had vocalized that early in his arrival, but most thought that was a snake-oil recruiting pitch.  And it worked evidenced by the great # of top recruits and NBA future players.  But, the Sharpe non-playing demonstrated that Ky banners were simply not a priority.  BBN had enough.

3 minutes ago, Oldercoach said:

In my circles a lot of fans got off the Cal train because of the ‘21-‘22 season with one of the less talented Cal era rosters losing to 15th seeded St. Peter’s.  We clearly had a great player, Shaedon Sharpe, never seeing game time for UK because Cal thought it might hurt his perceived draft value.  Cal knew, or should have known he would be leaving as soon as analysts said he was ready.  This reinforced Cal was much more for individual player development than the team.  He had vocalized that early in his arrival, but most thought that was a snake-oil recruiting pitch.  And it worked evidenced by the great # of top recruits and NBA future players.  But, the Sharpe non-playing demonstrated that Ky banners were simply not a priority.  BBN had enough.

Many people share this sentiment, but the irony is that John Calipari is beloved by players because he was ahead of the curve in calling out the corrupt system that puts them at risk. From the moment he arrived at Kentucky, he had a different perspective, famously calling the day in 2010 when five of his players were selected in the first round of the NBA draft "the greatest day in UK basketball history." While this might have been a bit hyperbolic, he celebrated the fact that those five players were set to become millionaires, and by extension, the university gained multiple successful alumni. Naturally, he received criticism for this, as many felt that "Kentucky basketball is about banners." But Calipari's point was valid: UK basketball should prioritize empowering these players and giving them the best chance at a prosperous life. It also served as a convenient fallback when times were tough.

1 hour ago, bugatti said:

Many people share this sentiment, but the irony is that John Calipari is beloved by players because he was ahead of the curve in calling out the corrupt system that puts them at risk. From the moment he arrived at Kentucky, he had a different perspective, famously calling the day in 2010 when five of his players were selected in the first round of the NBA draft "the greatest day in UK basketball history." While this might have been a bit hyperbolic, he celebrated the fact that those five players were set to become millionaires, and by extension, the university gained multiple successful alumni. Naturally, he received criticism for this, as many felt that "Kentucky basketball is about banners." But Calipari's point was valid: UK basketball should prioritize empowering these players and giving them the best chance at a prosperous life. It also served as a convenient fallback when times were tough.

I think you summarized his thinking accurately.  It just became harder for the BBN to embrace becoming 100% a farm system step for one-and-dones with NBA individual prep and draft positioning being the programs only focus and primary measurement of success.  Get knocked out of SEC and NCAA tourneys and rinse and repeat annually with a new roster.

7 hours ago, Oldercoach said:

In my circles a lot of fans got off the Cal train because of the ‘21-‘22 season with one of the less talented Cal era rosters losing to 15th seeded St. Peter’s.  We clearly had a great player, Shaedon Sharpe, never seeing game time for UK because Cal thought it might hurt his perceived draft value.  Cal knew, or should have known he would be leaving as soon as analysts said he was ready.  This reinforced Cal was much more for individual player development than the team.  He had vocalized that early in his arrival, but most thought that was a snake-oil recruiting pitch.  And it worked evidenced by the great # of top recruits and NBA future players.  But, the Sharpe non-playing demonstrated that Ky banners were simply not a priority.  BBN had enough.

I could be wrong but I don’t think the Sharpe situation played out like you said there. From everything I have heard and read, it sounded like Sharpe and his handlers completely lied and basically played Calipari. It wasn’t Cal choosing not to use him, Sharpe’s handlers basically decided not to allow Sharpe to play once they realized he could leave early for the NBA, since he graduated earlier than initially realized. 

7 hours ago, bugatti said:

Many people share this sentiment, but the irony is that John Calipari is beloved by players because he was ahead of the curve in calling out the corrupt system that puts them at risk. From the moment he arrived at Kentucky, he had a different perspective, famously calling the day in 2010 when five of his players were selected in the first round of the NBA draft "the greatest day in UK basketball history." While this might have been a bit hyperbolic, he celebrated the fact that those five players were set to become millionaires, and by extension, the university gained multiple successful alumni. Naturally, he received criticism for this, as many felt that "Kentucky basketball is about banners." But Calipari's point was valid: UK basketball should prioritize empowering these players and giving them the best chance at a prosperous life. It also served as a convenient fallback when times were tough.

Quite honestly I still don’t believe Cal actually truly meant that was the greatest day in UK basketball history. He is not dumb, he knows winning titles is most important. However, at that time in the recruiting world saying things like that helped make UK the place players wanted to go because it would help get them to their dream. IMO Cal was use to being at places like a Umass and Memphis where you truly had to sell and say big things like that to help get kids there. I think he completely miscalculated how crazy UK fans and wouldn’t get that was still part of the sales act in pitching the program to get top recruits to want to come here. He knew what players wanted to hear. 

10 hours ago, futurecoach said:

Quite honestly I still don’t believe Cal actually truly meant that was the greatest day in UK basketball history. He is not dumb, he knows winning titles is most important. However, at that time in the recruiting world saying things like that helped make UK the place players wanted to go because it would help get them to their dream. IMO Cal was use to being at places like a Umass and Memphis where you truly had to sell and say big things like that to help get kids there. I think he completely miscalculated how crazy UK fans and wouldn’t get that was still part of the sales act in pitching the program to get top recruits to want to come here. He knew what players wanted to hear. 

If he isn’t dumb, he should have thought that ridiculous statement through before chirping it out!!

14 minutes ago, nikeman49 said:

If he isn’t dumb, he should have thought that ridiculous statement through before chirping it out!!

I mean I do agree there even though it was his first year at UK. He should have known how irrational UK fans are and would completely not understand it was a sales pitch he could use for recruits. 

Just now, nikeman49 said:

If he isn’t dumb, he should have thought that ridiculous statement through before chirping it out!!

No offense, but if people took that literally, I would question their mental acuity. It was meant to be hyperbolic.

I’m unfamiliar with every player's situation, but John Wall came from a VERY difficult background. His father was convicted of murder and robbery, and his mother worked multiple jobs. The point of that day was to celebrate his success, as he and his family no longer had to worry. Kentucky basketball gave him that opportunity. If other players had a similar story, it would likely be the greatest day of their lives. It was a masterclass in recruiting that somehow went over the heads of a lot of people.

Anyway, time to retire from this silly discussion.

2 minutes ago, bugatti said:

No offense, but if people took that literally, I would question their mental acuity. It was meant to be hyperbolic.

I’m unfamiliar with every player's situation, but John Wall came from a VERY difficult background. His father was convicted of murder and robbery, and his mother worked multiple jobs. The point of that day was to celebrate his success, as he and his family no longer had to worry. Kentucky basketball gave him that opportunity. If other players had a similar story, it would likely be the greatest day of their lives. It was a masterclass in recruiting that somehow went over the heads of a lot of people.

Anyway, time to retire from this silly discussion.

Some change the dialogue to meet their feelings!!

3 minutes ago, futurecoach said:

I mean I do agree there even though it was his first year at UK. He should have known how irrational UK fans are and would completely not understand it was a sales pitch he could use for recruits. 

He was never known to think very much at all.

22 hours ago, futurecoach said:

I could be wrong but I don’t think the Sharpe situation played out like you said there. From everything I have heard and read, it sounded like Sharpe and his handlers completely lied and basically played Calipari. It wasn’t Cal choosing not to use him, Sharpe’s handlers basically decided not to allow Sharpe to play once they realized he could leave early for the NBA, since he graduated earlier than initially realized. 

I agree. Even the KSR Guys who were very critical of Cal, feel like that whole thing ended up out of Cal's hands. 

When does he throw them under the bus with his "I know what to do but none of them listen" speech?

 

1 hour ago, Tranquility Base said:

When does he throw them under the bus with his "I know what to do but none of them listen" speech?

 

How often or when has he ever given that speech? His main line was always well we are young. I don’t recall him very often or at all giving that speech you mentioned when he was here at UK at least.