I will go out on a limb here and say if a Satanist is elected to Congress, there are bigger problems going on.

 

Also, a little gender bias here, why couldn't it be a female Satanist to get elected?:sssh:

 

Agreed, someone actually brought something similar to this up in class the other day. I said the exact same thing, if we have people of that horrific a faith being elected in to office then I'd say what they swear in on doesn't even matter much at that point.

Now really are Christians honestly being persecuted as much as you say. Or is it that as this nation grows your not seeing as dominant a faith base across the country as before. Freedom of religion and seperation of church and state says it all.

Yes, I think Christians are being persecuted in this country, much the way white males have been for the past 30 years. There is a real move going on in this country to neuter Christians and make them ineffective in society. It's not so much about persecution as it neutralization.

Yes, I think Christians are being persecuted in this country, much the way white males have been for the past 30 years. There is a real move going on in this country to neuter Christians and make them ineffective in society. It's not so much about persecution as it neutralization.

 

 

I wonder how much of that is the public neutralizing or we the church neutralizing ourselves. How often are we too content to stay in our "club mentality" rather than address the tough issues around us whether it's moral guidance (plenty of people preaching about that these days) or responsibility to social ills and issues. (harder task that requires more money and effort than pontification.)

I wonder how much of that is the public neutralizing or we the church neutralizing ourselves. How often are we too content to stay in our "club mentality" rather than address the tough issues around us whether it's moral guidance (plenty of people preaching about that these days) or responsibility to social ills and issues. (harder task that requires more money and effort than pontification.)

BOTH!!!!!!!!!!!! Or at least I see that as the model that Jesus provided. He provided for the poor and unfortunate and challenged us to do the same while at the same time providing a moral guidance.

 

I will concede that the former gets more attention than the latter but I think Christians are doing a much better job at the latter than what had been done.

I wonder how much of that is the public neutralizing or we the church neutralizing ourselves. How often are we too content to stay in our "club mentality" rather than address the tough issues around us whether it's moral guidance (plenty of people preaching about that these days) or responsibility to social ills and issues. (harder task that requires more money and effort than pontification.)

I think they Christian church waking up in the late 80's and early 90's and getting involved in society is what has brought on a lot of the "persecution".

I think they Christian church waking up in the late 80's and early 90's and getting involved in society is what has brought on a lot of the "persecution".

I agree. Society loved it when we were staying in our pews and within the walls of the church and keeping a lot of moral guidance there.

 

Now that we are no longer doing that, they are not happy campers.

 

One example is the number of people that are indignant about Christians voting their faith. How did they use their faith to chose a politician.

 

And I think that HHSDad has classfied it very accurately in not a persecution but a move to make it where we are not allowed to influence or affect.

Now really are Christians honestly being persecuted as much as you say. Or is it that as this nation grows your not seeing as dominant a faith base across the country as before. Freedom of religion and seperation of church and state says it all.

 

Compared to...Let's say 200 years ago or even 75 years ago...I would have to say yes.

Compared to...Let's say 200 years ago or even 75 years ago...I would have to say yes.

 

 

Maybe 200 years ago. But 230 or 250 years ago? Baptists were being publically whipped in, surprise - Virginia! There lands were being confisacted and they were being imprisoned up until the Statute for Religious Liberty took hold in the 1780's.

 

Once again a look at the foundings of this country (pre Constitution) show a lot of persecution for various religious groups. Check out the way the Pilgrim Seperatists handled dissenters like Roger Williams (I won't even mention the witch trials.).

 

Wonder if the Mormans felt that way in the early 19th century? Persecution has happened before and will again.

 

BTW, it was illegal in Boston to celebrate Christmas!!!

 

"For preventing disorders, arising in several places within this jurisdiction by reason of some still observing such festivals as were superstitiously kept in other communities, to the great dishonor of God and offense of others: it is therefore ordered by this court and the authority thereof that whosoever shall be found observing any such day as Christmas or the like, either by forbearing of labor, feasting, or any other way, upon any such account as aforesaid, every such person so offending shall pay for every such offence five shilling as a fine to the county."

 

From the records of the General Court,

Massachusetts Bay Colony

May 11, 1659

 

http://www.masstraveljournal.com/features/1101chrisban.html

 

I know I digress, I guess I just want to remind us that there has been persecution in this country (and the world) before and probably will remain so.

Maybe 200 years ago. But 230 or 250 years ago? Baptists were being publically whipped in, surprise - Virginia! There lands were being confisacted and they were being imprisoned up until the Statute for Religious Liberty took hold in the 1780's.

 

Once again a look at the foundings of this country (pre Constitution) show a lot of persecution for various religious groups. Check out the way the Pilgrim Seperatists handled dissenters like Roger Williams (I won't even mention the witch trials.).

 

Wonder if the Mormans felt that way in the early 19th century? Persecution has happened before and will again.

 

BTW, it was illegal in Boston to celebrate Christmas!!!

 

"For preventing disorders, arising in several places within this jurisdiction by reason of some still observing such festivals as were superstitiously kept in other communities, to the great dishonor of God and offense of others: it is therefore ordered by this court and the authority thereof that whosoever shall be found observing any such day as Christmas or the like, either by forbearing of labor, feasting, or any other way, upon any such account as aforesaid, every such person so offending shall pay for every such offence five shilling as a fine to the county."

 

From the records of the General Court,

Massachusetts Bay Colony

May 11, 1659

 

http://www.masstraveljournal.com/features/1101chrisban.html

 

I know I digress, I guess I just want to remind us that there has been persecution in this country (and the world) before and probably will remain so.

 

Christians have been persecuted since it's beginning. It was stated in the Bible that it would be this way, and thus it has been. If you look, I'm sure you can find proof and examples of this at any point in history. I don't when the persecution was worst. If anything, I would guess that the persecution Christians in America face today wouldn't be close to the top of the list.

 

There is persecution in the sense that a lot of people would like to shut out the message...fighing against Christmas, the Ten Commandments, etc...things along that lines...but that's pretty much the extent of it at this point. We don't have to worry about suffering physical harm because of our belief. That's an important point...and one I'm quite thankful for.

Yes, I think Christians are being persecuted in this country, much the way white males have been for the past 30 years. There is a real move going on in this country to neuter Christians and make them ineffective in society. It's not so much about persecution as it neutralization.

 

 

White males? How so?

Compared to...Let's say 200 years ago or even 75 years ago...I would have to say yes.

 

So you mean when caucasions were prodominitely they only race except for the former slaves with little or no rights, or the native americans which we forced on to reservations. Yeh good example. Oh wait you did include even 75 years ago, you mean when still the common number of immigrants WERE CHRISTIANS, from Europe. Also before the civil right movement.

 

You're comparison is weak, if this would've happened 75 years ago, this man or others who stood up for him would've likely been persecuted and probably even assaulted much like during the Civil Rights era. People have grown to except other religions, just because Christianity isn't embraced across the board now doesn't mean it's being persecuted, and or opressed.

White males? How so?

 

by affrimative action!

So you mean when caucasions were prodominitely they only race except for the former slaves with little or no rights, or the native americans which we forced on to reservations. Yeh good example. Oh wait you did include even 75 years ago, you mean when still the common number of immigrants WERE CHRISTIANS, from Europe. Also before the civil right movement.

 

You're comparison is weak, if this would've happened 75 years ago, this man or others who stood up for him would've likely been persecuted and probably even assaulted much like during the Civil Rights era. People have grown to except other religions, just because Christianity isn't embraced across the board now doesn't mean it's being persecuted, and or opressed.

 

During my lifetime I have seen many traditional Christian rituals and objects that were an every day part of life (and the USA) disappear. Sometimes they would disappear just because of one atheist's persistent pleas. I'm very patriotic and love my country, but I liked her more the way she was when I was younger. I have a problem when it's "remove that Christian stuff...It offends me" works so easily all of a sudden. What else has our supreme court removed lately? Maybe it's not persecution and/or oppression or maybe it is. To this Christian, it sure seems to be sometimes.

Yes, I think Christians are being persecuted in this country, much the way white males have been for the past 30 years. There is a real move going on in this country to neuter Christians and make them ineffective in society. It's not so much about persecution as it neutralization.

Ugh and to think, that as a Catholic I there is a move to neuter me :jump: But this is really true they are trying to do that to Christians and White Males

Michael Medved, who I enjoy more than Dennis Prager, takes issue with Dennis on the Koran-swearing issue.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=2698960&page=1