Ok here goes , cut me some slack I'm short on time and have so many thoughts they might run together .

 

First to PP92 . I'm going to be straight with you and hope it doesn't offend . My intentions are get a better understanding from both sides . From your comments and support of CK I get the strong vibe you don't trust white people at all. And as a rather white person who hasn't done a darn thing to deserve that distrust it hacks me off . And that my trouble with CK and his misdirected protest . When he " America " is oppressing black people I think he is talking directly at me , like I'm part of some unwritten code to hold black people back . I'm not , and I'm really tired of being treated like I am .

His problem seems to the cops and drug laws or something along those lines . How many 100's of thousands of GOOD cops is he throwing under the bus because of the horrific actions of what would amount to less than 1% of all cops. But your comments and CK comments seem directed at all of white America .

I know I'll get labeled as naïve but I'm a guy who attempts to be as color blind as possible . A guy is a guy , a girl is a girl , whether you are Chinese or Haitian , you a just a person like me . If more people of all races , mainly blacks and whites , had that attitude wouldn't all be better off ? Instead of all the labels ? Just be an American .

If CK choose to wear a sticker on his helmet with " no bad cops" or some other way to highlight his cause I'm ok with it . But he choose to disrespect everyone who loves this nation. All the lost lives protecting it . Just a awful platform to attempt to bring attention to what he feels is an issue ( who is not paying attention anyway ??) Yeah some bad cops did some awful things . In most , not every , but most cases the legal system dealt with it and justice was doled out . Why accuse the entire country , esp white people , of supporting the few wrongs that have happened . We don't .

I'll even say this . I'd bet a buck I've been the victim of more race driven violence than he has . has he ever been attacked by a mob of white people ? I have been by black people ( teens) . Circa 1984 . Huntington WV . Ran into 2 classmates at the mall. Was with my parents but rode home with them . Stopped at a pool hall/game room in the downtown area , was walking back to our car when surrounded by a group of black people. Was accused of nothing other than being white . Bottles were broken and we were threatened with them. John Spence got attacked first , broken nose , lacerations to his face . Me and my buddy ran when he was attacked . David Justice was the other guy with me . We spent the rest of the night in the ER . BUT I don't blame any other black person for that . PP92 didn't have a single thing to do with that .

Why should I feel like I'm part of the problem because of my skin color ? Well time to go to work . I've actually got more to say . Peace to all of you .

 

I'm actually more trusting to all people of all colors than I should be. I enter every situation in life giving people I come into contact with a lot of trust from day one. I don't have blanket issues of non trust. Please point out specific things I have said that makes you feel like I don't trust whites people so I can try to explain myself more clearly. I'd be happy to try to help you understand what Kap is trying to say and do.

 

I do think the first thing people that feel the same way as you do need to understand is that more than likely Kap isn't talking about you as an individual. 99.9% of the people of all colors I have talked to about this situation have zero to do with anything Kap is saying. What I hear from Kap is that he is saying "I don't think blacks get a fair shake in this country and because of it I am sitting during the national anthem." He's not talking about people individually. He's talking about what he feels is systemic and institutionalized racism in our society today. I think that is a real issue and I applaud him for taking a stand on it in a peaceful manner. He's dealing with the consequences as we speak but as I said earlier conversations are being had and awareness is up so it looks like at the least he accomplished something.

Here is what I'm thankful for to Kaepernick: Monday AM, while taking my kids to school, "Mike & Mike" were talking a LOT about the entire saga from all sides. Monday night, on the drive home from soccer practice, my son (6th grade) asked why Kaepernick wouldn't stand for the Anthem, and why that made people so angry. The next 20 minutes were some of the coolest we've had together, talking about race relations, the Anthem, our freedoms, who fought for them, and why there were such strong opinions on every side.

 

If Kaepernick's goal was to create conversations that would lead to things improving, as much as I personally don't care for the method he chose to "protest", it may be having some of the results he was hoping for.

Very cool.

I'm actually more trusting to all people of all colors than I should be. I enter every situation in life giving people I come into contact with a lot of trust from day one. I don't have blanket issues of non trust. Please point out specific things I have said that makes you feel like I don't trust whites people so I can try to explain myself more clearly. I'd be happy to try to help you understand what Kap is trying to say and do.

 

I do think the first thing people that feel the same way as you do need to understand is that more than likely Kap isn't talking about you as an individual. 99.9% of the people of all colors I have talked to about this situation have zero to do with anything Kap is saying. What I hear from Kap is that he is saying "I don't think blacks get a fair shake in this country and because of it I am sitting during the national anthem." He's not talking about people individually. He's talking about what he feels is systemic and institutionalized racism in our society today. I think that is a real issue and I applaud him for taking a stand on it in a peaceful manner. He's dealing with the consequences as we speak but as I said earlier conversations are being had and awareness is up so it looks like at the least he accomplished something.

 

Just out of curiosity, could you provide any examples of this? I see it thrown around a lot, but never really hear any specific examples of where the racism has been institutionalized, or embraced by the "system."

 

Not ready to say whether I agree or disagree, I am just looking for some examples where this is true.

I'll be shocked if Kaepernick is on a team this Sunday. I respect his stance. I respect his protest. I agree with his peaceful protest and his desire to bring awareness to a sensitive issue in the black community.

 

I'll be shocked if any teams wants to have Kaepernick on their sideline on NFL opening day which so happens to fall on 9-11 this year. I'm with Kap all the way but on 9-11 I'd make an exception to my protest.

 

Ok, I understand what 9-11 is but I'm not sure I understand why you would make it an exception to your protest.

I sure would

 

Good.

 

Then your tone would change, dramatically.

Good.

 

Then your tone would change, dramatically.

 

Combining the Bruce Jenner treatment with a reverse Michael Jackson treatment...could get interesting.

 

*Edit* I thought you had suggested that I, a white male, should somehow switch to a Black female in order to get an alternative perspective. Going back I can find the post where you suggested this. Whether you edited or I just imagined this, it no longer applies to your post which hellbird responded to.

Only in our country can you be painted a white trash racist hillbilly for flying ythe flag. I've proudly displayed the American flag since I bought myn first home 12 years ago. My twin brother promptly called me a hillbilly. I rebuttaled with "only in America can I be ridiculed for being proud of where I live". I was very close with my grandfather who was a WWII pacific theater navy vet, the stories he told me, I can never not honor him or others sacrifices. I have two nephews who are black and my little brothers girlfriend is black. I love them all. I'm realistic not racist.

 

I've literally never heard someone called a hillbilly or racist for flying the American flag.

On point. My only issue is the divisive commentary because folks are too lazy to look beyond blanket statements. It assists in fueling outrage (by both sides) and leads to unrest. When asked about it had he said "I refuse to stand until policing against minorities is improved," it would resonate more with me because I know that to be true. Remember, "murder" means premeditation with the intent to kill. I believe biases exist that have led to death, but I refuse to believe there is a systemic effort by the police to murder others. Maybe I am naive though?

 

And the Castro shirt. Talk about oppression. :lol2:

 

The Castro shirt. :lol2: :lol2:

 

 

I don't think there is a systemic effort by the police to murder anyone of any color. I think there great cops, good cops, okay cops, bad cops and horrible cops. Just like at any job. You have a huge range from best employee on the job to worst employee on the job. I think the same holds true for cops and I wonder if that may be more of an issue in these incidents than anything else.

 

I'm not sold the justice system is fair to those of all colors without the means to represent themselves and I especially think the justice system is flawed. I think we all know justice can be manipulated and trust in that system right now is at an all time low. I think people of all shapes, sizes and colors do not trust the justice system at this moment.

What bothers me most about the Kaepernick situation is how quickly it escalated into a black and white issue. Kaepernick believes that America the country oppresses black people. 50 years ago America had very few blacks in prominent positions. This is not the case today. Thankfully many blacks hold positions as doctors, lawyers,teachers,professors, law enforcement, elected officials, cabinet appointees and currently the President Of The United States. Blacks make up a portion of our country's leadership. Shouldn't they be held accountable for some of the oppression, or do they get a pass on this one?

The Castro shirt. :lol2: :lol2:

 

 

I don't think there is a systemic effort by the police to murder anyone of any color. I think there great cops, good cops, okay cops, bad cops and horrible cops. Just like at any job. You have a huge range from best employee on the job to worst employee on the job. I think the same holds true for cops and I wonder if that may be more of an issue in these incidents than anything else.

 

I'm not sold the justice system is fair to those of all colors without the means to represent themselves and I especially think the justice system is flawed. I think we all know justice can be manipulated and trust in that system right now is at an all time low. I think people of all shapes, sizes and colors do not trust the justice system at this moment.

Hand raised.

Ok' date=' I understand what 9-11 is but I'm not sure I understand why you would make it an exception to your protest.[/quote']

 

I would make an exception to that day because I lived through it and experienced it. The days after 9-11 is the most together I have ever witnessed our country in my entire life. Everything was thrown out of the window and we mourned together as a country and we came together as a country to rebuild and begin work to make sure it never happened again. I'll never forget anything about that day and if I was protesting like Kap is(I would never protest in this manner) I would make an exception out of respect for the innocent lives lost that day because 9-11 is a day of remembrance to me. Not a day of protest. My protest would resume on 9-12 but on 9-11 I'm paying my respects.

I'm from NKY to give you an idea. Maybe it's me. It's more often than not if I'm in a group and some one drives by with an American flag on their truck or hanging from there home, it's always one person "Hillbilly". Just a couple in my personal experience

Edited August 30, 201610 yr by spindoc

What bothers me most about the Kaepernick situation is how quickly it escalated into a black and white issue. Kaepernick believes that America the country oppresses black people. 50 years ago America had very few blacks in prominent positions. This is not the case today. Thankfully many blacks hold positions as doctors, lawyers,teachers,professors, law enforcement, elected officials, cabinet appointees and currently the President Of The United States. Blacks make up a portion of our country's leadership. Shouldn't they be held accountable for some of the oppression, or do they get a pass on this one?

 

Already been touched on, just because it is "not as bad as it used to be" does NOT mean it doesn't still exist.

 

As long as that mentality is held on to, things will never improve to where they should.

What bothers me most about the Kaepernick situation is how quickly it escalated into a black and white issue. Kaepernick believes that America the country oppresses black people. 50 years ago America had very few blacks in prominent positions. This is not the case today. Thankfully many blacks hold positions as doctors, lawyers,teachers,professors, law enforcement, elected officials, cabinet appointees and currently the President Of The United States. Blacks make up a portion of our country's leadership. Shouldn't they be held accountable for some of the oppression, or do they get a pass on this one?

 

I feel like when Kap brought the word oppression into the conversation it sparked the conversation to a whole new level. I think someone mentioned the word oppressed being a trigger word that causes people to become uncomfortable and I understand that. He may or may not have meant oppressed. I may have used different words but I do understand what Kap is trying to say. I see it more as him trying to say "blacks don't get a fair shake" as opposed to saying "blacks are being oppressed." I'm putting words in his mouth but I feel like that is what he is meaning at the root of his protest.

I'm from NKY to give you an idea. Maybe it's me. It's more often than not if I'm in a group and some one drives by with an American flag on their truck or hanging from there home, it's always one person "Hillbilly". Just a couple in my personal experience

 

A confederate flag maybe... I've never seen it with an American flag.

Edited August 30, 201610 yr by spindoc