June 17, 201610 yr Motor vehicle fatalities have decreased dramatically - even in the face of a concomitant increase in the number of vehicles on the road and the number of miles driven. Probably because vehicles are much, much safer than they used to be. All some of us are asking is to give the same consideration to weaponry available to the general public. Firearms deaths have decreased also over the last decades, even in the face of modern firearms being available. I support keeping people from owning guns that shouldn't have them and what ever laws that may entail but I don't support banning modern firearms.
June 17, 201610 yr That's an honest assessment and answer. You and I can find a common ground. I feel the FBI dropped the ball to an extent on this guy and the San Bernadino couple. Those that only blame the weapon are missing the entire picture. As as far as gun violence, might want to check with Australia and see how violent crime has increased since their gun grab. Talk about dropping the ball Orlando shooter texted wife during attack, source says - CNN.com The owner of a Florida gun store said Thursday that employees contacted the FBI four or five weeks ago because they became suspicious when Mateen tried to purchase body armor and a large amount of ammunition. Robert Abell of Lotus Gunworks in Jensen Beach said a man asked for soft and then hardened body armor but was told the store didn't carry that merchandise. During his visit, the man spoke on the phone to somebody in a foreign language and asked to buy 1,000 rounds of ammunition -- a request the store turned down, Abell said. The store called the FBI with the suspicions, Abell said, but didn't know the man's name. The FBI investigated another incident reported by the gun store owner that coincided with Mateen's possible visit, three law enforcement officials told CNN. Agents originally looked into a call from the store about a group of suspicious foreign men appearing to be of Middle Eastern descent, who were buying police gear. The FBI tracked down the men, who were visiting government security officers from a Middle Eastern country. The purchase was not deemed suspicious, the sources said. When the FBI closed the matter with the store, an employee mentioned another unidentified suspicious man who days before had tried to buy Level 3 body armor. There was no name or any purchase record to review. The FBI asked the person at the store if there was surveillance footage or a car description or license plate. There wasn't. After the shooting, store employees realized the man was Mateen, Abell said. The FBI had no official comment on the matter when reached Thursday night. Spokesmen for the Florida Department of Law Enforcement and the Martin County Sheriff's Office said the agencies don't have any records of receiving calls from Lotus Gunworks.
June 17, 201610 yr He's got no chance of subduing and killing 50 people with a hammer. Maybe a couple, but to be able to kill and injure 100 people as this guy did, your only chance is with a gun. Pro gun folks always point out that killers can use anything to kill, and while that's true, guns do it more efficiently than any other "tool" outside of a large bomb. And while people use guns for sport, their primary function, when used as designed, is to kill. Period. And that's what makes this issue a tough one to separate the guns from the crime. That being said, I'm all for gun ownership. I grew up in a houseful of guns, and while I don't own any now, I still may in the future. And even though I don't understand why people feel the need to own certain kinds of guns, or a whole closet full of guns, I'm sure there's plenty of things I do that other people don't understand as well. Banning certain kinds of guns I don't think prevents these sort of things from happening. It makes us feel better. But some of the arguments that the hard core gun owners make, are just as silly as the arguments the hard core anti gun folks make....and sorry Capt, a guy killing 50 people with a hammer is silly. And believe it or not, I agree with you on most of the gun issues. There's no question that there is some relationship to the enormous number of guns we have in this country to the high incidents of gun violence. And there's also no question that most, if not 99% percent of gun owners are responsible and no threat to society. We've got to figure out how to find and prevent that 1% from getting hold of guns, at least legally. Well said.
June 17, 201610 yr That's an honest assessment and answer. You and I can find a common ground. I feel the FBI dropped the ball to an extent on this guy and the San Bernadino couple. Those that only blame the weapon are missing the entire picture. As as far as gun violence, might want to check with Australia and see how violent crime has increased since their gun grab. I did. Gun Control in Australia http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/05/world/australia/australia-gun-ban-shooting.html?_r=0 The rate of gun-related suicides and homicides per 100,000 residents in Australia has fallen sharply since gun ownership restrictions were tightened in 1996.
June 17, 201610 yr I did. Gun Control in Australia http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/05/world/australia/australia-gun-ban-shooting.html?_r=0 The rate of gun-related suicides and homicides per 100,000 residents in Australia has fallen sharply since gun ownership restrictions were tightened in 1996. I didn't say gun crimes, I said violent crimes. AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN
June 17, 201610 yr Fewer deaths. I prefer living after being mugged. 0 mass shootings. Surely you're not suggesting that criminals are braver now there are fewer Aussie guns.
June 17, 201610 yr I didn't say gun crimes, I said violent crimes. AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN I guess it depends on who you listen to. [TABLE=class: facts, width: 2] [TR] [TH=align: center][/TH] [TH=align: center]Murder[/TH] [TH=align: center]Manslaughter[/TH] [TH=align: center]Total homicide[/TH] [TH=align: center]Sexual assault[/TH] [TH=align: center]Armed robbery[/TH] [TH=align: center]Unarmed robbery[/TH] [TH=align: center]Total robbery[/TH] [TH=align: center]Kidnapping/abduction[/TH] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]1993[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.7[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.9[/TD] [TD=align: center]69[/TD] [TD=align: center]30[/TD] [TD=align: center]42.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]72.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]3.6[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]1994[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.6[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.8[/TD] [TD=align: center]71.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]28.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]50[/TD] [TD=align: center]78.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]3.1[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]1995[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.8[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]2[/TD] [TD=align: center]72.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]29.1[/TD] [TD=align: center]51.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]80.6[/TD] [TD=align: center]2.6[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]1996[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.7[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.9[/TD] [TD=align: center]79.4[/TD] [TD=align: center]34.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]55.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]89.4[/TD] [TD=align: center]2.6[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]1997[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.7[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.9[/TD] [TD=align: center]77.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]48.9[/TD] [TD=align: center]66.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]115.1[/TD] [TD=align: center]3.1[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]1998[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.8[/TD] [TD=align: center]78.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]58[/TD] [TD=align: center]69.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]127.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]3.8[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]1999[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.8[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]2[/TD] [TD=align: center]77.7[/TD] [TD=align: center]49.9[/TD] [TD=align: center]69.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]119.4[/TD] [TD=align: center]4[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]2000[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.6[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.9[/TD] [TD=align: center]85.7[/TD] [TD=align: center]49.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]72.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]121.8[/TD] [TD=align: center]3.6[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]2001[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.6[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.8[/TD] [TD=align: center]90.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]57.9[/TD] [TD=align: center]79.1[/TD] [TD=align: center]137[/TD] [TD=align: center]4[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]2002[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.6[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.9[/TD] [TD=align: center]95.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]39.9[/TD] [TD=align: center]66.9[/TD] [TD=align: center]106.9[/TD] [TD=align: center]3.6[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]2003[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.7[/TD] [TD=align: center]90.7[/TD] [TD=align: center]36.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]63[/TD] [TD=align: center]99.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]3.5[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]2004[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]95.4[/TD] [TD=align: center]30[/TD] [TD=align: center]52.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]82.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]3.8[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]2005[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]91.9[/TD] [TD=align: center]36[/TD] [TD=align: center]48.4[/TD] [TD=align: center]82.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]3.6[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]2006[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.4[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.6[/TD] [TD=align: center]94.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]36.7[/TD] [TD=align: center]47.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]83.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]3.5[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]2007[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.1[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]95[/TD] [TD=align: center]36.4[/TD] [TD=align: center]49.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]85.6[/TD] [TD=align: center]3.5[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]2008[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.1[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.4[/TD] [TD=align: center]93.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]31.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]45.7[/TD] [TD=align: center]77[/TD] [TD=align: center]3.7[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]2009[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.1[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]86[/TD] [TD=align: center]29.8[/TD] [TD=align: center]39.7[/TD] [TD=align: center]69.7[/TD] [TD=align: center]2.6[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]2010[/TH] [TD=align: center]1[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.1[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]81.8[/TD] [TD=align: center]25.8[/TD] [TD=align: center]40.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]66.4[/TD] [TD=align: center]2.7[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]2011[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.1[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.1[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]78.7[/TD] [TD=align: center]26.8[/TD] [TD=align: center]34.4[/TD] [TD=align: center]61.1[/TD] [TD=align: center]3[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]2012[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.1[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]81.4[/TD] [TD=align: center]27.4[/TD] [TD=align: center]30.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]57.9[/TD] [TD=align: center]2.8[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]2013[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]86.1[/TD] [TD=align: center]24.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]26.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]51.47[/TD] [TD=align: center]2.6[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Source: Australian Bureau of Statistics
June 17, 201610 yr I guess it depends on who you listen to. [TABLE=class: facts, width: 2] [TR] [TH=align: center][/TH] [TH=align: center]Murder[/TH] [TH=align: center]Manslaughter[/TH] [TH=align: center]Total homicide[/TH] [TH=align: center]Sexual assault[/TH] [TH=align: center]Armed robbery[/TH] [TH=align: center]Unarmed robbery[/TH] [TH=align: center]Total robbery[/TH] [TH=align: center]Kidnapping/abduction[/TH] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]1993[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.7[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.9[/TD] [TD=align: center]69[/TD] [TD=align: center]30[/TD] [TD=align: center]42.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]72.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]3.6[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]1994[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.6[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.8[/TD] [TD=align: center]71.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]28.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]50[/TD] [TD=align: center]78.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]3.1[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]1995[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.8[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]2[/TD] [TD=align: center]72.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]29.1[/TD] [TD=align: center]51.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]80.6[/TD] [TD=align: center]2.6[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]1996[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.7[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.9[/TD] [TD=align: center]79.4[/TD] [TD=align: center]34.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]55.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]89.4[/TD] [TD=align: center]2.6[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]1997[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.7[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.9[/TD] [TD=align: center]77.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]48.9[/TD] [TD=align: center]66.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]115.1[/TD] [TD=align: center]3.1[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]1998[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.8[/TD] [TD=align: center]78.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]58[/TD] [TD=align: center]69.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]127.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]3.8[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]1999[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.8[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]2[/TD] [TD=align: center]77.7[/TD] [TD=align: center]49.9[/TD] [TD=align: center]69.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]119.4[/TD] [TD=align: center]4[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]2000[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.6[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.9[/TD] [TD=align: center]85.7[/TD] [TD=align: center]49.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]72.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]121.8[/TD] [TD=align: center]3.6[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]2001[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.6[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.8[/TD] [TD=align: center]90.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]57.9[/TD] [TD=align: center]79.1[/TD] [TD=align: center]137[/TD] [TD=align: center]4[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]2002[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.6[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.9[/TD] [TD=align: center]95.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]39.9[/TD] [TD=align: center]66.9[/TD] [TD=align: center]106.9[/TD] [TD=align: center]3.6[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]2003[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.7[/TD] [TD=align: center]90.7[/TD] [TD=align: center]36.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]63[/TD] [TD=align: center]99.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]3.5[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]2004[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]95.4[/TD] [TD=align: center]30[/TD] [TD=align: center]52.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]82.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]3.8[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]2005[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]91.9[/TD] [TD=align: center]36[/TD] [TD=align: center]48.4[/TD] [TD=align: center]82.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]3.6[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]2006[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.4[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.6[/TD] [TD=align: center]94.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]36.7[/TD] [TD=align: center]47.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]83.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]3.5[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]2007[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.1[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]95[/TD] [TD=align: center]36.4[/TD] [TD=align: center]49.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]85.6[/TD] [TD=align: center]3.5[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]2008[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.1[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.4[/TD] [TD=align: center]93.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]31.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]45.7[/TD] [TD=align: center]77[/TD] [TD=align: center]3.7[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]2009[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.1[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]86[/TD] [TD=align: center]29.8[/TD] [TD=align: center]39.7[/TD] [TD=align: center]69.7[/TD] [TD=align: center]2.6[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]2010[/TH] [TD=align: center]1[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.1[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]81.8[/TD] [TD=align: center]25.8[/TD] [TD=align: center]40.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]66.4[/TD] [TD=align: center]2.7[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]2011[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.1[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.1[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]78.7[/TD] [TD=align: center]26.8[/TD] [TD=align: center]34.4[/TD] [TD=align: center]61.1[/TD] [TD=align: center]3[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]2012[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.1[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]81.4[/TD] [TD=align: center]27.4[/TD] [TD=align: center]30.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]57.9[/TD] [TD=align: center]2.8[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH=class: dtsechead]2013[/TH] [TD=align: center]1.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]86.1[/TD] [TD=align: center]24.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]26.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]51.47[/TD] [TD=align: center]2.6[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Source: Australian Bureau of Statistics So their crime went up after the gun ban and confiscation for a few years. I am curious as to what is leading the crime to go downward. Does it take time for the ban to settle or is it an increase of police. I also heard that Australians have as many guns now as they did before the port arthur massacre.
June 18, 201610 yr Guns are now killing as many people as cars in the U.S. - The Washington Post Glad to see gun violence is down from the 70's 80's and 90's
June 18, 201610 yr I'm listening what do we need to do to start looking at the criminal/terrorist? Fair question. We can start by actually enforcing the many laws already on the books. I can get on board with more background checks (however this last shooter passed three if I recall correctly). I think we need to stop handing out psychotropic drugs like they're candy. We can see to it that the mandatory penalty for using a firearm in the commission of a violent crime is stringent. We need to do something to end leniency and revolving door justice. Criminals need to know that the penalty for using a gun in a violent crime isn't just a mere threat, but swift, certain, severe punishment. We need to stop being PC and stop worrying about offending people based on their lineage or religion. This last shooter was on the radar and possibly slipped through the cracks because of what I just said needs to stop. This last shooting should have been stopped before it ever happened. Now, there will still be those that won't care. Criminals are such because they don't care about laws and as I've said often, you can't regulate a sick mind. Radical terrorists will always find a way until we find a way to completely eliminate them. But I think what I listed will do more than any ban will ever do. Unfortunately repealing the ban has created a swell in the popularity. There are more out there and the world is more dangerous because of it.I hate to break it to you, but talk of bans have created a swell in the popularity. I work with two guys that just bought an AR because they think a ban is coming. The gun dealers I've talked to say sales are up every time a ban gets mentioned. So, in essence, people like yourself and our Democrats in the limelight are responsible for the increase of modern sporting rifles out there. The world isn't more dangerous because of MSRs, it's more dangerous because we as a nation seem to want band-aid legislation rather than to crack down on criminals and terrorists.
June 18, 201610 yr The lamest "nothing needs to change" defense out there. What's lame in actuality and reality is purposely or through ignorance spreading misinformation and lies about MSRs to aid their agenda.
June 18, 201610 yr I will be more correct and use the correct terms assault-type weapons. If you want to use the correct term then why are you being obtuse on the correct term? If you want to call them by the correct term, then do so. MSR. Modern Sporting Rifle.
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