Ugh...If you use or do anything which you have mentioned in an unsafe manner' date=' then you are responsible for your actions. You keep trying to expand the scope to bring in more and more examples, but the reality of it is that none of them adequately compare to drug use.[/quote']

 

 

You've already said if you knock on the devil's door....you've said that they knew the risks.

 

So my examples for your words perfectly.

What you've just stated is your opinion and not a fact.

 

 

...and fits perfectly if you subscribe to that thinking. Consistency.

No, my reasoning is because they know that doing it ONE TIME can kill you. Not the same with any of the other stuff you and Clyde have been talking about.

 

It can only take one time of drinking and driving to kill yourself. Do we not save that person because they know that drinking and driving could cost them their life?

I think a big part of the issue with people OD'ing is they never know when that "lethal" dose is coming. They may be using for a long time and then their dealer gets a new supplier and the "batch" is cut completely different and laced with much more fetanyl than they were previously used to getting. The suppliers love to cut it down and add things making it go much further thus making them more money.

 

It's a sad social crisis in this country and I wish it would go away tomorrow, but it's not going anywhere anytime soon. Some people who use may have a death wish, but I think others just don't know what they are pumping in their bodies. Unfathomable for me to imagine someone putting something in their body that could potentially end their life. Will never understand.

Well this as been an interesting read.

Already are.

 

Yeah, pretty tough to get a parking place in Fort Mitchell Kroger's lot no matter what time of day it is!

You've already said if you knock on the devil's door....you've said that they knew the risks.

 

So my examples for your words perfectly.

 

If you can't see that comparing using heroin to using a chain saw is utter lunacy, then this is about as far as our discussion can go. Simply amazing.

 

I have been waiting for someone on here, anyone, to come up with a legitimate reason to protect and enable drug users, and have yet to see any. The "we are obligated to"is baloney. It is just an attempt for those to stand on their soap box and preach moral high ground fodder to those who have a different an opinion. Show me where I am obligated to do that. If a drug user asks for help, that is one thing. But enabling them but not forcibly preventing them from using drugs, and continuing them to allow to use drugs, is nothing I am obligated to do.

 

I have tried to play the devils advocate here, but the reality of it is this. The reason we bring back people from OD'ing is not on behalf of the drug user. It is not because of some moral high-ground, soap box preaching point that I half heartedly believe. Do I think there are more than enough idiots out there, and that they would would undoubtedly be better off without them? Yes. Do I think that people need to suffer the consequences of their ill advised actions. Absolutely.

 

We bring those who have OD'd back to health out of respect for their family. The drug user is often times an aimless, worthless weight that usually provides nothing to society( I am not talking about the 1 or 2 time use, moreso the full blown addict.) However, that is not an indictment on their family. We resuscitate those who OD because we know the torment felt when you lose a loved one. Failing yo resuscitate a drug abuser has no impact on the actual user, but on the innocent, often clueless family. It is out of respect and sympathy for the family of the drug user, that we continue to resuscitate and do every other possible method to prevent and minimize the effects of drug abuse has on the unintended victims.

Well this certain news has caused a bit of a firestorm. I'm a Kroger Pharmacist that is currently in Morehead. I'm a new graduate from last May so I'll preface my statements before that but I've lived a majority of my life in Northern Kentucky as I'm an alumni of Scott High School. I've worked in some of the pharmacies in NKY as tech/intern and also as just a regular person I've seen a lot of people affected the crisis going back all the way to 2004. Heck when I was in high school, I had heard of numerous dealings going on behind Dillards in Crestview before all the reconstruction started happening. This crisis is real and needs dealing with. The naloxone going OTC is a step in the right direction in doing this. This move wasn't designed to be the cure all for this. Here is what I said in another thread (Link) in our Narcan OTC debate when the legislation allowed for it:

 

This debate is similar to needle exchange programs in states where there is debate you are enabling people with addiction ready access to needles for use but at least they are using clean needles to prevent the spread of HIV, Hepatitis, etc.... I'm a pharmacist so my opinion of this is a little skewed but I'm on the side of that it's necessary to combat opioid overdoses.

 

These people need help to combat their addiction. Suboxone/Subutex can help but no one can truly quit unless they are mentally ready to do so and are surrounded by the right people. However, there is no hope for them if they are lying dead on the ground from an opioid overdose and no ready access for an antidote. Narcan can give them a second chance at life and another chance at recovery. I do understand though that there will be some people that this readily available antidote enables them for more abuse but I think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages in this case.

 

The only way for these people to truly save themselves from addiction rehabilitation through therapy like counseling but they have to have the drive to do it. Many people are abusing Subutex/Suboxone nowadays even though it was designed to help people quit the addiction yet studies show they don't do anything at all other than moving the source of addiction for the patient. Many patients try to but partial of Suboxone to just try and sell it on the street for cash and then come back to buy some more. Subutex/Suboxone can be useful in helping addiction but only if the patient is willing and has the motivation to actually help free themselves from it.

 

Naloxone may enable some individuals to keep abusing heroin and prescription opioids but it can give someone else a 2nd chance to help themselves, their friends, and their families. There is no chance for recovery if they are laying dead on the ground. I think the advantages of this program outweigh the disadvantages and should be utilized as a SUPPLEMENT to help people with addiction get the treatment they need. Heck, many people who battle addiction have relapses and thus wouldn't it make sense to have something on standby just in case things go too far? This epidemic, IMO, can only be truly solved through a change of culture and a heaving investment and motivation for rehabilitation to help these people figure out what got them to this point, their triggers for abusing drugs, and many other things that are necessary to help them.

 

Its going to take a lot to overcome this crisis we are facing but IMO this is a step in the right direction. Sorry for the long post and my thoughts may be a little disorganized on this but this is something I have seen and experienced with my own eyes and thus I can get a little passionate about.

I have no qualms about letting idiots die off. Our society is filled with them.

 

Easy to say until it hits close to home.

Gotcha.

 

How do paramedics/ER nurses/docs decide at the point of having to use life-saving measures if the person in front of them is unconscious/dying due to such activities vs something else unrelated?

 

You would seem to be applying a lot of tests for those persons who would then be wasting critical time vs doing what they do - save lives.

 

Sin triage.

Easy to say until it hits close to home.

 

I was going to say the same thing.

And I thought I could be a cold blooded person. Yeesh....

 

 

WHO HURT YOU PEOPLE SO DEEPLY?????

And I thought I could be a cold blooded person. Yeesh....

 

 

WHO HURT YOU PEOPLE SO DEEPLY?????

 

For some, it's probably a case of an addict taking a nickel of their tax money.

Here's my question to you all not wanting to allow a medication to be available.

 

Why don't we just round them all the addicts up and shoot them? Wouldn't that save a lot of time?

No, my reasoning is because they know that doing it ONE TIME can kill you. Not the same with any of the other stuff you and Clyde have been talking about.

Smoking cigarettes CAN kill you. There is a high likelihood that it will. Obesity CAN kill you. There is a high likelihood that it will.

 

Doing something with a risk that it can kill you is the same in all of these cases. Logically, the speed with which it can kill you shouldn't matter...