September 8, 200620 yr The Cardinals have 3 pitchers, with more than 10 wins. Here are number of wins: 14 - Marquis 13 - Carpenter 11 - Suppan and the Reds have....2 13 - Harang 12 - Arroyo You don't have to be great, just better than the 2nd place team. I'd take the Cardinals starters, relievers and closers, over the Reds any day. I dont know what Marquis's ERA is now but I remember his ERA was above 5 at one point even though he had around 10 wins. So Marquis has not done a good job as a starter he just happens to get the run support. I would take Harang, Arroyo, and Milton over those three guys...There closer has blown more saves than any closer in the big leagues I beleive. So they just have as many problems pitching wise as us. But the difference is they know how to hit people in when there is people in scoring position we dont.....
September 8, 200620 yr The Cardinals have 3 pitchers, with more than 10 wins. Here are number of wins: 14 - Marquis 13 - Carpenter 11 - Suppan and the Reds have....2 13 - Harang 12 - Arroyo You don't have to be great, just better than the 2nd place team. I'd take the Cardinals starters, relievers and closers, over the Reds any day. Carpenter is exceptional. The other two are Eric Milton on a better team.
September 8, 200620 yr I dont know what Marquis's ERA is now but I remember his ERA was above 5 at one point even though he had around 10 wins. So Marquis has not done a good job as a starter he just happens to get the run support. I would take Harang, Arroyo, and Milton over those three guys...There closer has blown more saves than any closer in the big leagues I beleive. So they just have as many problems pitching wise as us. But the difference is they know how to hit people in when there is people in scoring position we dont..... Right on to the real..........
September 8, 200620 yr The Reds have blown 32 save chances to the Cards 20... I just got sick...............
September 8, 200620 yr I dont know what Marquis's ERA is now but I remember his ERA was above 5 at one point even though he had around 10 wins. So Marquis has not done a good job as a starter he just happens to get the run support. I would take Harang, Arroyo, and Milton over those three guys...There closer has blown more saves than any closer in the big leagues I believe. So they just have as many problems pitching wise as us. But the difference is they know how to hit people in when there is people in scoring position we don't.....Carpenter won the Cy Young in '05 and is in the running again....as for ERA's, neither are spectacular, so that is a wash. Isringhausen is on pace to have his 39 saves or so, but yes he's blown 10 saves this year, compared to 4 last year....I still like him better, than any closer the Reds have today or used. Marquis' ERA is terrible at 5.73 but 14 wins, is 14 wins....he gives up HR's, more frequently than Milton, who has only 8 wins....Suppan is 11-7 and a 4.39 ERA in 160 innings and has more wins Ramirez (4), Claussen (3) and others combined. I'll take the Cardinals.....The Cards (1,303) have outhit the Reds (1,256) but have fewer total bases (Cards 2,062) to the (Reds 2,133). The Cardinals have 640 RBI's and the Reds 647. The Reds have more HR's (198) than the Cards (156). The Reds have K'd (1,024) times and the Cards (780), which means the Cards put the ball in play more and their team batting average is .273, as compared to the Reds .261 ....which all falls back to starting pitching. The Reds starters have combined for 42 wins and the Cards have 55......:thumb: and those 13 more wins from the starting pitchers, are certainly the difference right now.
September 8, 200620 yr Carpenter won the Cy Young in '05 and is in the running again....as for ERA's, neither are spectacular, so that is a wash. Isringhausen is on pace to have his 39 saves or so, but yes he's blown 10 saves this year, compared to 4 last year....I still like him better, than any closer the Reds have today or used. Marquis' ERA is terrible at 5.73 but 14 wins, is 14 wins....he gives up HR's, more frequently than Milton, who has only 8 wins....Suppan is 11-7 and a 4.39 ERA in 160 innings and has more wins Ramirez (4), Claussen (3) and others combined. I'll take the Cardinals.....The Cards (1,303) have outhit the Reds (1,256) but have fewer total bases (Cards 2,062) to the (Reds 2,133). The Cardinals have 640 RBI's and the Reds 647. The Reds have more HR's (198) than the Cards (156). The Reds have K'd (1,024) times and the Cards (780), which means the Cards put the ball in play more and their team batting average is .273, as compared to the Reds .261 ....which all falls back to starting pitching. ...:thumb: and those 13 more wins from the starting pitchers, are certainly the difference right now. Yes 13 more wins, but that goes alot with the reds not being able to score for their starters alot of times. There has been alot of games for all three Arroyo, Harang, and Milton that they pitched great games but couldn't get a win cause of the offense. Lohse I think it was in his first two starts pitched great games but couldn't get a win cause the offense couldn't score. Then also the Reds having more blown saves go more with my argument because that is just more wins that the Reds starters could have had... Now my point with the Cardinals closer I shouldn't have brought up because he is still better than any closer we could throw out there, but I was just making a point that their closer as blown more saves than any other every day closer...So their pitching is pretty much on the same level as ours, and I still stick by with what I say that I would take our 3 starters over their 3.
September 8, 200620 yr Yes 13 more wins, but that goes alot with the reds not being able to score for their starters alot of times. There has been alot of games for all three Arroyo, Harang, and Milton that they pitched great games but couldn't get a win cause of the offense. Lohse I think it was in his first two starts pitched great games but couldn't get a win cause the offense couldn't score. Then also the Reds having more blown saves go more with my argument because that is just more wins that the Reds starters could have had... Now my point with the Cardinals closer I shouldn't have brought up because he is still better than any closer we could throw out there, but I was just making a point that their closer as blown more saves than any other every day closer...So their pitching is pretty much on the same level as ours, and I still stick by with what I say that I would take our 3 starters over their 3. Reds 675 - Runs scored 4.61 - ERA (Team) Cardinals 673 - Runs scored 4.49 - ERA (Team) I don't think the blown saves argument, would translate back to starters getting wins, but more like middle relievers getting wins for the Reds. For most of Milton's starts, the Reds were down 3-0 after 2-3 innings. We just disagree but I will concede, both staffs have some pitchers who are similar but in the final analysis, the both line is "Wins"....and Carpenter, Suppan and Marquis have more wins than any 3 of the Reds. Cardinals staff is up 6.5 games, so they are currently better than the Reds staff, in my opinion and especially since the Reds have amazing power numbers.
September 8, 200620 yr Reds 675 - Runs scored 4.61 - ERA (Team) Cardinals 673 - Runs scored 4.49 - ERA (Team) The Reds have scored two more runs than the Cards. You can probably attribute that to the homerun advantage total the Reds have over St. Louis as a team. Griffey hits 3rd in the lineup...Dunn hits 5th...And as noted earlier by letabrotherspeak, Griff hits .214 with RISP and Dunn hits .233. Enough said. The Reds starters and Cards starters have equally struggled this season.
September 8, 200620 yr Yes 13 more wins, but that goes alot with the reds not being able to score for their starters alot of times. There has been alot of games for all three Arroyo, Harang, and Milton that they pitched great games but couldn't get a win cause of the offense. Lohse I think it was in his first two starts pitched great games but couldn't get a win cause the offense couldn't score. Then also the Reds having more blown saves go more with my argument because that is just more wins that the Reds starters could have had... Now my point with the Cardinals closer I shouldn't have brought up because he is still better than any closer we could throw out there, but I was just making a point that their closer as blown more saves than any other every day closer...So their pitching is pretty much on the same level as ours, and I still stick by with what I say that I would take our 3 starters over their 3. Don't forget that blown saves could have meant more wins for Reds pitchers. Elizardo had several games that he had "won" and the pen lost it.
September 9, 200620 yr Lohse is pitching pretty well. The jinx doesn't matter anymore. 2-1 redlegs bottom 5.
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