People like you have been saying this for decades. Hasn't happened yet.

 

Despite what you and those of your ilk want, gun ownership is a Constitutionally guaranteed right. Here's the thing, people with guns have defended your and my rights since the inception of this great nation.

 

You can't just pick and choose which rights the Constitution guarantees to defend. You must defend them all whether you agree with them or not.

If the liberals interpreted the Second Amendment in the same way they interpret the First Amendment, every man, woman and child would be required to carry a gun.

As I said earlier, if the neighbor thought that they were level headed and had a legitimate concern, he should have called.

 

 

Agreed, perhaps the next neighbor will be more vigilant. Then again we don't know how many already were.

12 pipe bombs, many more tools to make more, 3,000 rounds of ammo all found in their home.

 

Work place violence?

Not saying it's right or wrong, it's just relativity.

 

If you were in the Middle East where Islam is the predominant religion you'd probably find the inverse. It's human nature, it's a flaw and it's one WE as a culture should recognize and not embrace.

 

I still don't know enough about what happened yesterday to make a decision or distinction as to whether this was a radical religious attack or a sick guy with a crazy wife, some really weird hobbies and connections to known terrorists. But it's looking a bit like a radicalized Muslim so far.

My main contention is we are NOT recognizing it but instead further perpetuating it.

The neighbors wanted to alert authorities but "Political Correctness" scared them away. Many more Americans will be sacrificed I'm sure, due to us not wanting to hurt people's feelings.

 

First, what happened to "people need to take personal responsibility" that is constantly harped on? IF the neighbor saw suspicious activity, he should have reported it. Period. Don't blame PC for you not stepping up and doing the right thing. And second, what was the suspicious activity the neighbor saw?? Several middle eastern guys gathering in someone's home is not suspicious activity, and that's basically what the neighbor said they saw....

 

First, what happened to "people need to take personal responsibility"? IF the neighbor saw suspicious activity, he should have reported it. Period. Don't blame PC for you not stepping up and doing the right thing. And second, what was the suspicious activity the neighbor saw?? Several middle eastern guys gathering in someone's home is not suspicious activity, and that's basically what the neighbor said they saw....

 

Working on things in the garage and getting a large quantity of packages all of a sudden.

Agreed, perhaps the next neighbor will be more vigilant. Then again we don't know how many already were.

 

Agreed. And as RJS4470 asked, what did the neighbor see being suspicious? We have heard recently of people being asked to leave airplanes because they looked middle eastern and were speaking in a foreign language, and another passenger got "scared/worried".

 

If you have a legit reason, report it.

Are you speaking as a comment-er or a moderator? (legitimate question)

 

Are you speaking to me and Twotoplace or President Obama? (not a serious question)

 

Comment-er

I feel like I mentioned this around post 269. I always underestimate the Internet engine.

You may have, I haven't read every post in this thread.

Decided to pull something from a recent thread to support what I'm saying:

 

Most of his neighbors thought he was nuts long before this. He rambled on about being a government agent and told them he had secrets that could destroy the USA. He also suggested to one neighbor that he should get a metal roof to keep the government from spying on him.

 

Also, one police source said that while he did mention baby parts in an interview, it was one of many things he mentioned and the interview left them unclear as to a motive.

 

His wife also said that he was opposed to abbortion but the topic didn't really come up much when they were together.

 

This isn't a normal church going Christian. He is crazy.

 

This is in regards to Robert Dear

 

The man she had married professed to be deeply religious

He found excuses for his transgressions, she said, in his idiosyncratic views on Christian eschatology and the nature of salvation.

He claims to be a Christian and is extremely evangelistic, but does not follow the Bible in his actions,” Ms. Micheau said in the court document. “He says that as long as he believes he will be saved, he can do whatever he pleases. He is obsessed with the world coming to an end.

He was a man of religious conviction who sinned openly, a man who craved both extreme solitude and near-constant female company, a man who successfully wooed women but, some of them say, also abused them. He frequented marijuana websites, then argued with other posters, often through heated religious screeds.

Turn to JESUS or burn in hell,” he wrote on one site on Oct. 7, 2005. “WAKE UP SINNERS U CANT SAVE YOURSELF U WILL DIE AN WORMS SHALL EAT YOUR FLESH, NOW YOUR SOUL IS GOING SOMEWHERE

One person who spoke with him extensively about his religious views said Mr. Dear, who is 57, had praised people who attacked abortion providers, saying they were doing “God’s work

In 2009, said the person, who spoke on the condition of anonymity out of concerns for the privacy of the family, Mr. Dear described as “heroes” members of the Army of God, a loosely organized group of anti-abortion extremists that has claimed responsibility for a number of killings and bombing

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/12/02/us/robert-dear-planned-parenthood-shooting.html?ref=us&referer=https://t.co/oPfcCGfvm1&_r=0

 

Somehow Robert Dear is not "a normal church going Christian. He is crazy."

 

But people who follow a radicalized view of Islam don't get that distinction...

Working on things in the garage and getting a large quantity of packages all of a sudden.

 

I get packages almost everyday from Fedex, UPS, USPS and spend lots of time in my garage, sometimes with friends. I guess I should expect a visit from the authorities soon.

 

That situation describes almost any middle class guy with a garage and hobby.

Decided to pull something from a recent thread to support what I'm saying:

 

This is in regards to Robert Dear

 

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/12/02/us/robert-dear-planned-parenthood-shooting.html?ref=us&referer=https://t.co/oPfcCGfvm1&_r=0

 

Somehow Robert Dear is not "a normal church going Christian. He is crazy."

 

But people who follow a radicalized view of Islam don't get that distinction...

 

They difference between the two is we don't know if his attacks were based on religion. There's no evidence of that.

 

We know that radicalized Islamic terrorists do kill in the name of religion.

 

And they get the distinction of being called radicalized. They're not normal every day Muslims just like he doesn't represent normal every day Christians.

My main contention is we are NOT recognizing it but instead further perpetuating it.

 

Haha you're killing me. Because I get what you're saying BUT I also think we(you and I are close in age) recognize it more when we see people just label something. They find a headline that appeals to them and just go with it. It doesn't necessarily mean that's what everyone is doing, it's just that we notice, do the SMH thing and take note of it happening.

 

I'm by no means saying we as a culture/society are pushing forward but I don't think we are taking steps back. Again its something where you have to think about the people not commenting and where you think they'd land if they did.

 

I get packages almost everyday from Fedex, UPS, USPS and spend lots of time in my garage, sometimes with friends. I guess I should expect a visit from the authorities soon.

 

That situation describes almost any middle class guy with a garage and hobby.

 

Perhaps it was out of the ordinary for him. Clearly her suspicions were correct.

There seems to be a difference between a radicalized jihadi who has allegiance to a terrorist group that will go out and kill people in the name of his religion and the lone crazy who shoots anonymous people because he gets some sort of twisted satisfaction out of doing so--again because he is crazy.

 

These are two different types of perpetrators.

 

The radicalized jihadi has more in common with the nut-job white supremacist or the New Black Panther loyalist who commits violence than he does with the mentally ill perp we've seen at places like Newtown, Conn or Columbine. The jihadi or white supremicist or New Black Panther loyalist are involved in "group-think" in which they project perceived grievances against their group on a general population (that they are usually prejudiced against) and then take "revenge."

 

The lone mentally ill person has his own internal reasons for committing violence that are hard to track--though I think they probably have a modicum of logic once his twisted perspective is accepted as his reality. For instance, a paranoid personality thinks the military has implanted some surveillance device in his house or worse, in his brain, and so goes to a local military establishment and opens fire. It is both crazy and logical at the same time once you accept that he really believes his false perception is reality. I think this kind of person also stands out in hindsight. People knew he had mental issues but none were willing to believe he would go so far.

 

This is different than the person who is loyal to a group and is following a general plan to advance the group's goals. They are harder for their co-workers and neighbors to recognize even in hindsight because they were being deceptive to begin with. It's only when law enforcement does a thorough investigation that their true associations and intentions are known.

 

We will have to wait to see which of the two this couple represents, though it seems pretty certain to me that they are connected to a radical group. How much "crazy" was also involved is yet to be determined.

 

I'm just thinking out loud. It is only relevant to the conversation here as it seems we are comparing apples and oranges. There seem to be different types of mass shooters. Some are just motivated by an internal, deranged outlook due to mental illness. The other seems to be motivated primarily by their group's hatred and seek to further the group's goals.