July 1, 201511 yr I want to make this perfectly clear, I have never been attracked to another man! I just want to make sure we are on the same page here.:lol2: So what about a guy who is married with kids and he leaves his wife for another man. Obviously the woman was about to arouse him. He made a choice. Here's the other thing, even if you are attracked to the same sex there is nothing that says you have to have a sexual relationship. That's a choice. The man who left his wife for another man likely was a closeted gay man all along who used mental images of men to stay aroused in order to impregnate his wife. I've seen this scenario time and again. Typically he entered the marriage at a young age under the feeling of social and family pressure, and fear that anyone would figure that he was gay. Many gay married men have experienced this paranoid claustrophobic feeling in their younger days. Many carry it with them their entire lives living a lie, and some eventually own up to it all and face it. It's very sad and if not for the backwardness of society this type of scenario would not have had to happen, yet thankfully in today's world less and less young gay men are feeling these pressures, and you'll find less examples of these things happening. ******************************************************************************** ******************************************************************************** As far as you go, you've still not answered the most basic question here. You say that sexuality is a choice. Are you saying that "biologically" the stimulated feelings that you've experiences for woman, since perhaps your teen years and beyond, were by choice? Perhaps this time you might answer the question without dancing around it. ********************************************************************************* ********************************************************************************* Personally, I've never once in my life been sexually attracted to the opposite sex, however from as far back as I can remember I've been attracted to the same. (And just as straights are not attracted to every last person of the opposite sex, I was not attracted to every last person of the same sex). Never did I ever experience a sense of choice in the matter, or can say exactly when it first began. I do know that adolescence and puberty made it ever so more apparent to me. Early in my life through society's and religion's pressures I wished that I was straight, but no matter how much I had wished, it was not to be. After finally accepting it as a reality for me, I had to let go of society's and religion's pressures and accept myself for how I truly am, not how others expected me to be. If I hadn't I'm certain I would have lived a life of confusion with a self-image that there was something wrong with me, especially when every facet of my life otherwise was "normal", average or above average (education, athletics, talents etc...) It was either be lead by society and religion, who I was certain had not a clear understanding. or Have a self awareness of who I am and live life accordingly with the certainty of my reality. Once I removed all of the clutter of society's and religion's misinformed inadequate man-made guidance, the doors instantly opened up for me live as I truly was, unencumbered by the added weight and pressures of the ill-informed society and religion. Did I choose to be attracted to the same sex and not the opposite sex? Absolutely not. Did I choose to act on my attractions? Sure did... It was either follow my true self, or stand the chance of not living a true life as who I am by following the misguided bull crap of others. Pretty easy decision if you have any self awareness and a mentality level past the age of 15 or so.
July 1, 201511 yr Is that really a quote from Jefferson? http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/if-law-unjustquotation (The picture doesn't look like any other portraits of the man) "Comments: This quotation has not been found in Thomas Jefferson's papers. It has been suggested that it is a paraphrase of Jefferson's statement in the Declaration of Independence, "...whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government...," although such a paraphrase would seem to be taking some radical liberties with the original version. The quotation bears a much closer resemblance to Martin Luther King, Jr.'s comment in his famous letter from Birmingham Jail: "One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws."[1] Not arguing the thought, just the origin.
July 1, 201511 yr ^ The picture looks like my image of a gay Thomas Jefferson. Not sure what that says about me or old TJ.
July 1, 201511 yr ^ The picture looks like my image of a gay Thomas Jefferson. Not sure what that says about me or old TJ. I think he looks pretty good for a guy his age. :idunno:
July 2, 201511 yr Could we all agree that this thread has officially "gone to seed"? as regards the OP. But it has been fun any way. So, what you're saying is: Let's say you own a hardware store. Guy comes in buys a lock set...he's by himself. You're good with that sale. Same guy comes in with his sister and they have you cut a key, and you're ok with that sale. Same guy comes in with another guy and buys a saw blade...no holding hands...sale's oky by you. Same guy comes in with another guy and they're holding hands and tries to buy a furnace filter...no dice...he has to take his business elsewhere? I don't think anyone would agree that this scenario is what they want to see. It seems that for those who have objected to serving a gay person with their business it is when the particular service would require a participation in that which they believe is prohibited by their religion. For instance, a photographer may willingly photograph a gay student's graduation portrait. But let's say that gay student comes back a few years later and is going to "marry" his gay lover. He asks the photographer to photograph his engagement pictures and his wedding. The photographer refuses because she feels this would require her to attend and participate in something that violates her religion. She would be using her creative talent to make this occasion as meaningful as possible. I do not believe the photographer should be forced to do so. You should not have to leave your religious convictions behind when you open a business. Another example is a baker who twice a week sells a dozed donuts to a lesbian and her lover when they come into the bakery. But when the lesbian couple asks the baker to make the cake for their upcoming wedding the baker refuses because he believes that baking a cake for the wedding is requiring him to participate in the celebration in a way that communicated he approves. AGain, I do not believe the baker should be forced to do so. In each scenario, notice that the business owner did not discriminate against gay people. Each served them in a way that they believed they could legitimately do so. The objection only came when the business owner felt that the particular kind of service required the business owner to participate in or approve of something forbidden by his or her religion. The government should stay out of it.
July 2, 201511 yr I want to make this perfectly clear, I have never been attracked to another man! I just want to make sure we are on the same page here.:lol2: So what about a guy who is married with kids and he leaves his wife for another man. Obviously the woman was about to arouse him. He made a choice. Here's the other thing, even if you are attracked to the same sex there is nothing that says you have to have a sexual relationship. That's a choice. Since you cowarded from responding to my last post....here's another one for you... Yo Michael Corleone...since you never said that you were straight, yet you "chose" to be straight (considering that you say that "sexuality is a choice")..............and after all of the attempts you've been given to clarify that, but have danced around it,...................... I really can't think of any way to read it other than perhaps you're "asexual and just going through the motions", (not that there's anything wrong with that),............... but I'd be pretty certain that true straight men can tell you that without a doubt they "did not choose to be straight". Some are gay Some are bi-sexual Some are straight Some are asexual In all of the sexuality world, perhaps the "asexual" is the least understood, and very much suffer a closet just like gays have. They rarely even get talked about and they normally don't even talk about themselves because they realize that most wouldn't begin to understand, but for them, it is what it is. Some still might try to have a typical relationship and that's not impossible, but deep down they truly have no sexual attractions one way or another. If that's you, that's cool, but know for certain that true straight men can tell you that without a doubt they "did not choose to be straight" I have a hunch though that you are truly straight and that you're not willing to admit that you were wrong in your statement about "sexuality being a choice"....and the ridiculous way you kept answering with no real answers screams that... If that's the case then what wee bit of credibility you might have had in your commentary has quickly gone to a big fat ZERO... It's laughable and sad at the same time when people speak with such authority on topics that they obviously know nothing about. it's even more sad that someone approaching 50 hasn't let life teach them much and that your perception is what it is, or that will go round and round in circles dodging backing up your statement rather than just admitting that you were in error with it. Epic Fail ...And sadly... it's painfully obvious... But don't feel too bad, you're in good company here with a few other so called authoritative ones with their heads tucked firmly in various dark locations.
July 2, 201511 yr Yes, I choose to date and marry a woman. I'm and choosing today to not kiss another man. Seems pretty simple to me. We all make choices everyday. I find women attractive but I have choosen for 24 years to remain faithful to one even before entering into marriage. I guess I could cheat on her and say 'well I'm attracted to women, I had no choice' That statement, in no way, has any relation to the topic of whether you choose to be gay or are born gay. You are saying that you are born hetero and hypothetically chose to go outside of your marriage b/c you found a woman attractive. A better comparison would be 2 men being married and one of the men going outside of the marriage b/c they found another man attractive.
July 3, 201511 yr Since you cowarded from responding to my last post....here's another one for you... Yo Michael Corleone...since you never said that you were straight, yet you "chose" to be straight (considering that you say that "sexuality is a choice")..............and after all of the attempts you've been given to clarify that, but have danced around it,...................... I really can't think of any way to read it other than perhaps you're "asexual and just going through the motions", (not that there's anything wrong with that),............... but I'd be pretty certain that true straight men can tell you that without a doubt they "did not choose to be straight". Some are gay Some are bi-sexual Some are straight Some are asexual In all of the sexuality world, perhaps the "asexual" is the least understood, and very much suffer a closet just like gays have. They rarely even get talked about and they normally don't even talk about themselves because they realize that most wouldn't begin to understand, but for them, it is what it is. Some still might try to have a typical relationship and that's not impossible, but deep down they truly have no sexual attractions one way or another. If that's you, that's cool, but know for certain that true straight men can tell you that without a doubt they "did not choose to be straight" I have a hunch though that you are truly straight and that you're not willing to admit that you were wrong in your statement about "sexuality being a choice"....and the ridiculous way you kept answering with no real answers screams that... If that's the case then what wee bit of credibility you might have had in your commentary has quickly gone to a big fat ZERO... It's laughable and sad at the same time when people speak with such authority on topics that they obviously know nothing about. it's even more sad that someone approaching 50 hasn't let life teach them much and that your perception is what it is, or that will go round and round in circles dodging backing up your statement rather than just admitting that you were in error with it. Epic Fail ...And sadly... it's painfully obvious... But don't feel too bad, you're in good company here with a few other so called authoritative ones with their heads tucked firmly in various dark locations. Cowarded? Some of us have a life outside of this message board. Honestly, that's the last line I read in your essay. For the record, I have not personally attacked or insulted anyone in this thread. I respect your right to your opinion even if I disagree with them. Edited July 3, 201511 yr by Michael Corleone
July 3, 201511 yr That statement, in no way, has any relation to the topic of whether you choose to be gay or are born gay. You are saying that you are born hetero and hypothetically chose to go outside of your marriage b/c you found a woman attractive. A better comparison would be 2 men being married and one of the men going outside of the marriage b/c they found another man attractive. Just so I understand, if you are attracted to someone of the same sex you must have sexual relations with them, correct? In other words you have no choice. Bottom line for me, homosexuality is a sin, God doesn't make mistakes, and you choose your sexual partners. You either believe this or you don't, I'm in no way shape or form attempting to change your mind because it's pointless.
July 3, 201511 yr Cowarded? Some of us have a life outside of this message board. Honestly, that's the last line I read in your essay. For the record, I have not personally attacked or insulted anyone in this thread. I respect your right to your opinion even if I disagree with them. You said that "SEXUALITY IS A CHOICE" When asked if you "CHOSE TO BE STRAIGHT" by me and another you fumbled through a few responses that did everything but answer the question while pretending to. You feel insulted because you've been called out to back up your statement and you couldn't, so you've squirmed. Now you call foul on me to still avoid facing the question at hand to try to turn the dim light off of you. You probably noticed that I started a poll inspired by your comment: STRAIGHT MEN: DID YOU CHOOSE TO BE STRAIGHT? Out of 34 voters, 32 said THEY DID NOT CHOOSE TO BE STRAIGHT. Pretty lopsided results wouldn't you say? I'll take a wild guess that one of the "2" that said they "CHOSE TO BE STRAIGHT" might've been you. Straight Men: Did You Choose To Be Straight? - View Poll Results Perhaps you're "ASEXUAL AND GOING THROUGH THE MOTIONS" - (Not that there's anything wrong with that). Obviously though you are hardly the authority on such topics. If you actually did "choose to be straight" like you say then you are a real rarity among straight men and not one who can really speak for the majority on the matter. This is really not an opinion, but closer to facts and you can disagree if you like, and you can also continue to believe that 2+2=3, but at the end of the day you'd still be wrong. Sorry if that makes you uncomfortable. It makes me uncomfortable to hear people speak with authority with misinformation when they don't know what they're talking about and expect credibility all the while.
July 3, 201511 yr You said that "SEXUALITY IS A CHOICE" When asked if you "CHOSE TO BE STRAIGHT" by me and another you fumbled through a few responses that did everything but answer the question while pretending to. You feel insulted because you've been called out to back up your statement and you couldn't, so you've squirmed. Now you call foul on me to still avoid facing the question at hand to try to turn the dim light off of you. You probably noticed that I started a poll inspired by your comment: STRAIGHT MEN: DID YOU CHOOSE TO BE STRAIGHT? Out of 34 voters, 32 said THEY DID NOT CHOOSE TO BE STRAIGHT. Pretty lopsided results wouldn't you say? I'll take a wild guess that one of the "2" that said they "CHOSE TO BE STRAIGHT" might've been you. Straight Men: Did You Choose To Be Straight? - View Poll Results Perhaps you're "ASEXUAL AND GOING THROUGH THE MOTIONS" - (Not that there's anything wrong with that). Obviously though you are hardly the authority on such topics. If you actually did "choose to be straight" like you say then you are a real rarity among straight men and not one who can really speak for the majority on the matter. This is really not an opinion, but closer to facts and you can disagree if you like, and you can also continue to believe that 2+2=3, but at the end of the day you'd still be wrong. Sorry if that makes you uncomfortable. It makes me uncomfortable to hear people speak with authority with misinformation when they don't know what they're talking about and expect credibility all the while. Choice
July 3, 201511 yr The entire clerks office in Decatur County in Tennessee has resigned due to religious beliefs. I applaud them for standing up for what they believe in as well as for realizing you have to follow the law despite your religious beliefs should you choose to collect a pay check.
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