March 30, 201511 yr A betting site has set the spread for this year's UK game vs other teams including this year's Knicks team. http://collegebasketball.ap.org/article/gambling-analyst-kentucky-would-be-underdog-all-time-great-teams-sweet-16-all-stars
March 30, 201511 yr I still think '10 UK is better than '12 UK. Curious as to why? That flaw of the 2010 was a big flaw, they didn't have anyone who can shoot. 2012 team did and 2012 team also played better defense. Better shooting and better defense usually means better team. Shoot its the same reason.
March 31, 201511 yr Sorry if this is thread jacking, but why is it that the 2010 team never comes up in discussions like this? If they'd have won the national title, I think it's safe to say that people would be speaking about them in the same breath. In terms of top end talent, I think it's tough to top what the 2010's had and think that if there's a UK team that I'd match up with this year's squad head-to-head (that isn't the '96 Untouchables), then they are my pick. Wall - No. 1 pick, All-Star, Max Contract, Franchise Cornerstone Cousins - No. 5 pick, All-Star, Max Contract, Franchise Cornerstone Bledsoe - Lottery talent, could make some All-Star games, Near Max Contract, Franchise Building Block Patterson - 10+ year NBA career playing meaningful minutes, starter on a playoff team Liggins - stuck around the league for a few years, defensive stopper (not one who shined in '10 though) Miller - see Liggins, but not as much of a defensive stopper (didn't really shine in '10 either) Orton - had the talent to be a first round pick, played well in spurts through '10 (the above more developed later) Those are 7 guys that I tried to break out into tiers. It kind of boggles my mind that people are so quick to throw '12 out there when '10, at least to me, is the more talented group. I would definitely give '10 a better chance to beat '15 than I would '12 just because of the match-ups. This is most glaring at the guard spots. Teague and Lamb would struggle against the Harrisons, Ulis and Booker, and they would definitely struggle on Wall and Bledsoe. '10 has the size and bulk inside with Cousins, Patterson, and Orton that '12 only has in Davis. Not a knock on Terrence Jones, who is an NBA player and is playing well, but he's more of an undersized four/large three, and past that the '12s had Wiltjer and Vargas. I'll take my chances with the '10's banging against the 15's trees like Towns, Cauley-Stein, Dakari, and Lee. Finally, I'm not sure that the '12 team has the overall depth to compete with either. Top to bottom, here are the rosters: '10: PG - Wall, SG - Bledsoe, SF - Dodson, PF - Patterson, C - Cousins, 6 - Miller, 7 - Orton, 8 - Liggins, '12: PG - Teague, SG - Lamb, SF - Kidd-Gilchrist, PF - Jones, C - Davis, 6 - Miller, 7 - Wiltjer, 8 - Vargas, '15: PG - Harrison, SG - Harrison, SF - Lyles, PF - Cauley-Stein, C - Towns, 6 - Ulis, 7 - Booker, 8 - Johnson, 9 - Lee, I know which one has the most depth and overall talent ('15), but I still see the '10 group as the most top-heavy of them, and i'm not sure that it's as close as others do. From the '15 group, I think that Lyles, Towns, Cauley-Stein, and Booker are all pros, and that Johnson, the Harrisons, and possibly even Ulis and Lee are going to be guys who have a few years in the league, but I don't know that any of the '15 names have "superstar" written on them in the way that Wall and Cousins have; instead, I see more guys that top out closer to a Bledsoe on a deep '15 roster.
March 31, 201511 yr At the end of the day 2010 didn't even hang a banner. Hard to comp them to banner squads.
March 31, 201511 yr At the end of the day 2010 didn't even hang a banner. Hard to comp them to banner squads. That doesn't mean they aren't better. All it took was 1 bad game.
March 31, 201511 yr That doesn't mean they aren't better. All it took was 1 bad game. Tubby had a few of those, banners fly forever. You have distinguish the elite accomplishments.
March 31, 201511 yr Sorry if this is thread jacking, but why is it that the 2010 team never comes up in discussions like this? If they'd have won the national title, I think it's safe to say that people would be speaking about them in the same breath. In terms of top end talent, I think it's tough to top what the 2010's had and think that if there's a UK team that I'd match up with this year's squad head-to-head (that isn't the '96 Untouchables), then they are my pick. Wall - No. 1 pick, All-Star, Max Contract, Franchise Cornerstone Cousins - No. 5 pick, All-Star, Max Contract, Franchise Cornerstone Bledsoe - Lottery talent, could make some All-Star games, Near Max Contract, Franchise Building Block Patterson - 10+ year NBA career playing meaningful minutes, starter on a playoff team Liggins - stuck around the league for a few years, defensive stopper (not one who shined in '10 though) Miller - see Liggins, but not as much of a defensive stopper (didn't really shine in '10 either) Orton - had the talent to be a first round pick, played well in spurts through '10 (the above more developed later) Those are 7 guys that I tried to break out into tiers. It kind of boggles my mind that people are so quick to throw '12 out there when '10, at least to me, is the more talented group. I would definitely give '10 a better chance to beat '15 than I would '12 just because of the match-ups. This is most glaring at the guard spots. Teague and Lamb would struggle against the Harrisons, Ulis and Booker, and they would definitely struggle on Wall and Bledsoe. '10 has the size and bulk inside with Cousins, Patterson, and Orton that '12 only has in Davis. Not a knock on Terrence Jones, who is an NBA player and is playing well, but he's more of an undersized four/large three, and past that the '12s had Wiltjer and Vargas. I'll take my chances with the '10's banging against the 15's trees like Towns, Cauley-Stein, Dakari, and Lee. Finally, I'm not sure that the '12 team has the overall depth to compete with either. Top to bottom, here are the rosters: '10: PG - Wall, SG - Bledsoe, SF - Dodson, PF - Patterson, C - Cousins, 6 - Miller, 7 - Orton, 8 - Liggins, '12: PG - Teague, SG - Lamb, SF - Kidd-Gilchrist, PF - Jones, C - Davis, 6 - Miller, 7 - Wiltjer, 8 - Vargas, '15: PG - Harrison, SG - Harrison, SF - Lyles, PF - Cauley-Stein, C - Towns, 6 - Ulis, 7 - Booker, 8 - Johnson, 9 - Lee, I know which one has the most depth and overall talent ('15), but I still see the '10 group as the most top-heavy of them, and i'm not sure that it's as close as others do. From the '15 group, I think that Lyles, Towns, Cauley-Stein, and Booker are all pros, and that Johnson, the Harrisons, and possibly even Ulis and Lee are going to be guys who have a few years in the league, but I don't know that any of the '15 names have "superstar" written on them in the way that Wall and Cousins have; instead, I see more guys that top out closer to a Bledsoe on a deep '15 roster. No doubt the 2010 probably has the best collection of star potential of Cal's UK teams. However you can't look at based off how these guys are at pro's. You have to look at it how they were in college as a team. In college lanes are a lot more clogged up inside than they are in the NBA. Which is why the zone defense gave that 2010 team the most trouble, because they didn't have consistent shooters. Yeah Bledsoe had his moments but not consistent at all. Darius Miller ended up being a pretty realiable 3 point shooter by the time his career was done, but he was not back then. That 2010 team was loaded, however they didn't play as well as a team as the 2012 or 2015 team IMO. Not to mention the 2012 and 2015 team were better defensive teams. So yes when you look at it in terms of overall talent and star players the 2010 is up there with the best. However you can't look at it based on how they perform in the NBA. As a college team in 2010 they were great but their big flaw was shooting the ball, and that flaw is a big flaw to have in the college game because teams do play more zone and clog the lanes more than they do in the NBA. The 2012 and 2015 team can shoot the ball, and play better defense. So as a college team that is why those two years were more successful and why they get talked about more. The flaws the 2010 team had is a reason why they would have always had trouble winning the whole thing as compared to 2012 and hopefully this 2015 team. BTW I am pretty sure Miller was the starter on the 2010 team not Dodson....
March 31, 201511 yr If it helps, the only UK teams in my lifetime that I was absolutely confident would win the National Title were: 1978, 1996 and 2012. Neither the 2010 nor this team has led me to feel that way. Then again, I'm a pessimist. :thumb:
March 31, 201511 yr Who is going to score the ball for the 12 team against the 15 team? and looking at the 10 team you have to look at them as what they were then. You can't simply say "OMG THEY HAD JOHN WALL AND BOOGIE THEY"RE NBA STARS" yeah but not when they were 18 or 19. The 2010 team couldn't shoot the ball well and that would help this team a lot. 15> 12> 10
April 1, 201511 yr I think it was pretty safe to say that everyone knew Boogie and Wall were both going to be big time NBA talents from the moment they stepped on campus. Same goes for how people felt about Patterson having some years in the NBA (though his range did begin to expand). People were also big on Bledsoe, and even though he was raw, he was a talented player that, while people might not have thought he'd be one-and-done, was still probably considered more of an early entrant after year 2 or 3 than anything else. I looked it up and both ESPN and Rivals rated him as a 5*. ESPN graded him at a 90, and #12 PG... most anyone with a 9-anything are solid. Rivals listed him as the #3 PG and #23 player overall. While his development might have been a surprise, a large part of that was also that he was asked to play off the ball with Wall, so there was a bit of uncertainty as to how that'd work. If we're going back in time, Orton looked way better then than he probably does now. Dodson was also a guy who was capable of hitting some shots, and when he did, it was on. I see no way that the '12 guards keep Wall and Bledsoe in front of them, and Terrence Jones would have his hands full inside with Patterson. Above all, if we're going to talk about guys who "well, obviously they're standing out to you... you see what they do in the NBA now", then Davis is probably Exhibit A for improvement. Lots of people in this debate are always saying, 2012 would just pack it in and 2010 couldn't score, but it's rarely mentioned that 2010 could have some trouble getting into the offense with Wall and Bledsoe hounding Teague and Lamb. I think there's a valid question as to how 2012 does it offensively against 2010. Saying you want to run against the '10 guards means you are trusting Teague & Lamb to handle Wall & Bledsoe end to end. Not a good idea. So then the question becomes how they score in the half-court. Who does it for 2012? I think Jones gets his and Davis gets some (but he was fairly up and down), and past that, I'm not sure any one dude on '12 is able to carry that kind of burden. None of that is even getting into Cousins, who was a thousand times more physically mature than Davis, possibly getting him in foul trouble and/or just bulling him around the goal.
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