The Holy Cross Indians, with a school enrollment of 406, also won the All “A” Classic title back on Feb. 1. They are the fourth team ever to sweep the KHSAA and All “A” titles in the same season, joining Nicholas County (1993) Hazard (1997) and Lexington Christian (2007).

 

“It doesn’t matter the size. It really doesn’t matter the size,” said Deja Turner, who led Holy Cross with 13 points and five rebounds, and who was named tourney MVP. “We came in here against some big, big teams. We knocked off some very big teams, and we came through and we pulled it out twice.”

I'd like to see a "Private" school side of the bracket and a "Public" school side of the bracket. It would have HC, NCC, St Henry, Cov Latin, Villa, and Heritage on one side, with Newport, Beechwood, Ludlow, Bellevue, Dayton, and Lloyd.

Here is the answer to the thread title. NO...HC has not made the ALL A meaningless.

 

To those who don't care about it, don't play in it, make fun of it, or think it is broken...nothing changes. You already thought it is meaningless.

 

To those who look forward to it, play in it, enjoy it, attend it, follow it, and think it works just fine....nothing changes with Holy Cross at all. Next year we will think it is just as meaningful as it was before.

 

 

All I am saying is...nothing changes.

Here is the answer to the thread title. NO...HC has not made the ALL A meaningless.

 

To those who don't care about it, don't play in it, make fun of it, or think it is broken...nothing changes. You already thought it is meaningless.

 

To those who look forward to it, play in it, enjoy it, attend it, follow it, and think it works just fine....nothing changes with Holy Cross at all. Next year we will think it is just as meaningful as it was before.

 

 

All I am saying is...nothing changes.

The key is most or all the people complaining about the All A have never played in it. So really their opinions are moot.

you know what happens when you assume....

 

1993 Nicholas Co won both

1997 Hazard Co won both

2002 Jackson won All-A, runner-up KHSAA

2005 Clinton Co runner-up in both

2007 Lexington Christian won both

 

Happens more than you thought I bet!

 

I had no clue so I can't say I am surprised. On the girls side, I thought there might be a couple. My guess is there are fewer on the boys side. How many boys teams have won both? How many boys small schools have won a KHSAA state championship?

No. As you can see earlier in the post it's rare for a school to win both All A and Sweet 16.. HC had the talent and got the job done this season. Being the 'underdog' all season! They deserve it!!! Next year HC: won't be as good as this years team losing 4 seniors. But I do expect them to be decent. It was just a great year for the Lady Indians.

The key is most or all the people complaining about the All A have never played in it. So really their opinions are moot.

 

1st...What if...just what if there were tons of people that play it that think it's flawed...can they really say it without getting bashed??? Because there are several that play in it that do feel it needs adjusted.

 

2nd...no one's opinion is moot. It's an opinion.

 

3rd...OR...the key is that most that defend it to the end are from the perennial winners! Well no wonder they want it to stay the way it is!

 

I'll be done, but if you're in favor of this tournament, then you are in favor of classes...which is fine!

So this is about private/Catholic schools? The old "They win too much so lets use that as an excuse to get rid of them?" I am all for reducing the enrollment qualification, how much? I am not sure, but some regions may not be able to make it work with fewer teams. To remove private and or Catholic schools just because they are private and or Catholic is just wrong.

I'd like to see a "Private" school side of the bracket and a "Public" school side of the bracket. It would have HC, NCC, St Henry, Cov Latin, Villa, and Heritage on one side, with Newport, Beechwood, Ludlow, Bellevue, Dayton, and Lloyd.

 

Why?

So this is about private/Catholic schools? The old "They win too much so lets use that as an excuse to get rid of them?" I am all for reducing the enrollment qualification, how much? I am not sure, but some regions may not be able to make it work with fewer teams. To remove private and or Catholic schools just because they are private and or Catholic is just wrong.

 

Not for me it's not. That's just one of 3 solutions I proposed. It's an invitational and they can do whatever they want. there are very small private schools that I would put in the same boat as some of the public schools we are talking about.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I think the All "A" is gaining recognition as a bona fide event that allows the one-class KHSAA tournament to continue without having to endure an outpouring of support for classified basketball.

 

How many times was the fact that Holy Cross was also the "A" State Champs mentioned on the KHSAA broadcast??? In newspaper write-ups?

If the KHSAA felt that the "A" was a threat, or not serving a purpose, or worse yet, that the "A" was undermining the KHSAA tournament, believe me, you would not have heard a word about it mentioned on the KHSAA broadcast. The "A" tournament has turned into a good thing for the KHSAA.

 

With the "A", the KHSAA gets the best of both worlds. It takes the heat off of them for not providing a classified tournament. Why is it not "sanctioned" as a KHSAA "State Tournament?" Because it can't be. If they would recognize it as such, it would be an "official" form of classification.

Reducing enrollment qualifications isn't the answer. Wouldn't eliminate Holy Cross, NCC, Brossart, St. Henry etc..

 

I've previously advocated conditions, such as in horse racing: Something along the lines of "The All "A" Classic tournament is open to non-winners or runners-up of a KHSAA regional tournament over the past three years, nor participants in a KHSAA regional tournament for three consecutive years."

 

If Stan's vision of providing schools that truly have no chance of making the KHSAA Sweet 16 tournaments is going to be fulfilled, conditons are the only answer to the ongoing problem of mid-majors qualifying for it on an annual basis. With that being said, he would also be creating a tournament for the best of the worst, and I'm not sure that is what he wants either.

 

It is obvious that the "A" hasn't fulfilled its destiny of providing for the Dayton, Bellevue, Ludlow, and Silver Groves of the world as intended, but it has found itself a nice niche in the fabric of the overall structure of the season that does at least provide these teams an additional stage on which to perform outside of Division III competition, and keeps the KHSAA off of the basketball classification hot seat.

 

Occasionaly it does happen where a bona fide Class "A" school that is not going to normally win their region advances to the "A" State - most recently Augusta on the boys side, and Bracken County on the girls' side of the 10th Region. I'm sure that many, many, other examples could be provided by other regions around the state.

 

The fact that Northern Kentucky is "blessed" with so many good basketball programs that dominate the landscape of the "A" causes the overall general perception of the event to become that this is the case across the state. Probably outside of NoKy and Lexington this issue is not quite as predominant.

I'm not a private school hater. Go to the football board and watch me defend them then they want to make a separate division for private schools.

I'm not a HC hater. I'm elated for them and my discussion around this started way back when they were average.

I'm not a All A hater. I love the concept, but the format is flawed.

I'm not looking to get my daughter a trophy. She gets plenty of accolades on her own.

I'm not jealous. Could really care less about being in the tournament.

 

I am for making it truly for the schools that can't compete for any success in the regular format.

 

But since HC is recent, let's just use them as an example. Them winning both could not be more of an argument for switching the A. Here's my reasoning.

 

I think we all agree this tournament was founded to provide opportunities for the kids from small schools to experience some success without getting drummed by schools with much larger enrollment. I think it's obvious that the teams that do well (not just win the state) are just as competitive in the KHSAA events as 80% of the larger schools. I think we'd agree on that. "Competing" doesn't equal winning every event. We know that since 1920, that only 30 (10%) different schools (some that don't even exist anymore) have won the girls state. So in KY, we know that winning any state should be elite status and an honor that only 30 other teams have done in history!

 

So with HC winning both and knowing that the tournament was founded on providing opportunities for kids from small schools, couldn't someone argue that HC actually took opportunities away from anyone they played in the region and state? They obviously could compete very well with the others and they obvious dominated the A. So being in the A, did they actually take opportunities away from kids that the tournament was supposed to support?

 

And no, it's not about removing the competition. It's about making it for the teams that can't otherwise compete. Heck, I wouldn't care if Bellevue (or any other team) won it every year...as long as they were teams that otherwise couldn't compete in the KHSAA events. So the argue meant of "someone is going to always win. What are you going to do, just remove them?" doesn't work. It's not about removing teams that dominate the tournament. It's about removing teams that can obviously compete...regardless of school size.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

There is a mountain of factual evidence that says it is and needs some adjusting, at least for Girl's Basketball.

 

Again, people keep bringing up other sports - I have no clue how well it is, or is not, working in other sports.