OK, I know I'm dumb, but what if you have 105 on your team in Texas? What class are you in? What class are you in if you have 220 in Texas?

I was just going to make the same post....I noticed that too.

I missed that on the Texas numbers, they have 10 classes!!!

I was just going to make the same post....I noticed that too.

 

I missed that on the Texas numbers, they have 10 classes!!!

It looks like, even though they call it "six class" it's really 10 classes.

 

Class 6A: 2,100+

Class 5A: 1,060-2,099

Class 4A Division I: 686-1,059

Class 4A Division II: 465-685

Class 3A Division I: 315-464

Class 3A Division II: 220-314

Class 2A Division I: 158-219

Class 2A Division II: 105-157

Class 1A Division I: 55-104.9

Class 1A Division II: 54 and fewer

Florida is split like that as well. I don't have the numbers as far as enrollment goes.

Everyone likes to bash Kentucky's number of Classes in Football, right?

 

Everyone agrees that classes need to be divided and by enrollment is the fairest way to do it, right?

 

Well here is a comparison of Enrollment by class in Kentucky, Ohio and Texas...Kentucky's problem isn't too many classes, it too few schools. But Kentucky's class division by enrollment seems to be in-line with other schools as far as keeping similar sized schools in classes together.

 

 

[TABLE]

[TR]

[TD=class: xl63, colspan: 2]Kentucky Enrollment[/TD]

[TD=class: xl63, width: 183, colspan: 2]Ohio Enrollment[/TD]

[TD=class: xl63, width: 207, colspan: 2]Texas Enrollment[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=class: xl64]Class A[/TD]

[TD=class: xl64]0-189[/TD]

[TD=class: xl64] Division VI[/TD]

[TD=class: xl64]119 and less[/TD]

[TD=class: xl64]Class 1A Division I:[/TD]

[TD=class: xl64]55-104.9[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=class: xl64]Class AA[/TD]

[TD=class: xl64]189-315[/TD]

[TD=class: xl64] Division V[/TD]

[TD=class: xl64]120 to 171[/TD]

[TD=class: xl64]Class 2A Division I:[/TD]

[TD=class: xl64]158-219[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=class: xl64]Class AAA[/TD]

[TD=class: xl64]315-420[/TD]

[TD=class: xl64] Division IV[/TD]

[TD=class: xl64]172 to 242[/TD]

[TD=class: xl64]Class 3A Division I:[/TD]

[TD=class: xl64] 315-464[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=class: xl64]Class AAAA[/TD]

[TD=class: xl64]421-527[/TD]

[TD=class: xl64] Division III[/TD]

[TD=class: xl64]243 to 326[/TD]

[TD=class: xl64]Class 4A Division I:[/TD]

[TD=class: xl64] 686-1,059[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=class: xl64]Class AAAAA[/TD]

[TD=class: xl64]529-699[/TD]

[TD=class: xl64] Division II[/TD]

[TD=class: xl64]327 to 493[/TD]

[TD=class: xl64]Class 5A:[/TD]

[TD=class: xl64]1,060-2,099[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=class: xl64]Class AAAAAA[/TD]

[TD=class: xl64]700 and more[/TD]

[TD=class: xl64] Division I[/TD]

[TD=class: xl64]494 and more[/TD]

[TD=class: xl64]Class 6A:[/TD]

[TD=class: xl64]2,100+[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

2011-2013 OHSAA Tournament Divisions

Ready for Realignment » Texas Football

http://khsaa.org/football/realignment/20152018/FourYearEnrollmentsbyDraftClass.pdf

 

Here's the problem, Ohio and Texas set those guidelines base on knowing how many teams they have. In short...those states made those cutoff points because they had to. That doesn't mean it's right for every state and those should be the defaults. Honestly, this proves the point the other way. Each state is different and one model doesn't apply to how many classes they have. I sure hope KY didn't look other states with many more teams and say, well this is where they have their breaks, so this is what we'll do." Seeing that, it sure looks like they took a generic formula that works for those larger amounts of schools and tried to implement it in KY where it simply doesn't work.

 

 

Are you saying it's way better than doing this for KY knowing we have nowhere near as many teams.

 

Class A - 1-315

Class AA - 316-650

Class AAA - 651 - 1000

Class AAAA - 1000+

 

Now I have no idea how many teams that puts in each class, but could easily be adjusted. My point, you tailor you state for how it effects your state. Not what others do that have 3 times the amout of teams.

So in Kentucky a team with 120 enrollment should be playing with schools over 500? That's my point, look at the way the classes are divided. You have to divide my enrollment but if classes were cut to 4 as many want you'd have a huge disparity in enrollment in most every class, as disparity that doesn't occur in the Football Mecca's of Ohio and Texas except in their largest class.

 

If there were four classes now as there used to be, 2A would consist of roughly 275-419. 3A would be about 420-585. 4A would have the usual issue because of the outliers.

I think I found my answer on the Texas website:

Class 6A: 2,100+

Class 5A: 1,060-2,099

Class 4A Division I: 686-1,059

Class 4A Division II: 465-685

Class 3A Division I: 315-464

Class 3A Division II: 220-314

Class 2A Division I: 158-219

Class 2A Division II: 105-157

Class 1A Division I: 55-104.9

Class 1A Division II: 54 and fewer

 

5A and 6A in Texas are further divided once playoffs begin.

 

1. Each of the 32 districts in each class has 6-10 teams in them.

2. All district teams play each other and four best records make the playoffs.

3. Of the four playoff teams, the two with the largest enrollments are 6A-Division I and the two smallest enrollments are 6A-Division II (same done for 5A)

4. It is therefore possible for the 6A-Division II winner to have a larger enrollment than Division I.

 

Linked is their 6A districts. The bold, black numbers are their enrollments, which again come into play once the four playoff teams are decided.

http://www.uiltexas.org/files/alignments/6A.pdf

OK so here is the question...how much difference in enrollment is fair from a competitive basis in Football for the average school?

 

Is it fair to compete with schools with up to 2 times your enrollment in anything but the largest classes?

 

If a school has a male enrollment of 100, how big would be considered too big to compete for a title against?

If a school has a male enrollment of 250, how big would be considered too big to compete for a title against?

 

Get past Kentucky Numbers...what from a football standpoint would be fair competition? I'm not talking about outliers like Mayfield, NewCath or other small school power houses...just the average school.

OK so here is the question...how much difference in enrollment is fair from a competitive basis in Football for the average school?

 

Is it fair to compete with schools with up to 2 times your enrollment in anything but the largest classes?

 

If a school has a male enrollment of 100, how big would be considered too big to compete for a title against?

If a school has a male enrollment of 250, how big would be considered too big to compete for a title against?

 

Get past Kentucky Numbers...what from a football standpoint would be fair competition? I'm not talking about outliers like Mayfield, NewCath or other small school power houses...just the average school.

 

I hear what you're saying, but to you and your other buddies (lol), enrollment doesn't matter in other sports. KIDDING!

 

My feeling is that any school should be fine competing with schools around a 300 range. I see the lower divisions maybe having a few issues, but how far down to you go then. When do we stop saying okay, well school A is never competitive because they only have 75 boys in their school So they can't play with a team that has 175 kids. Now do we create another division? No, that team of 75 is rarely going to be competitive unless they would only play extremely small schools or we get to about 10 classes.

 

Maybe you do tighten up the range at the lower levels, but expand the ranges when you get to a certain size school. For example, once you're over 400 boys there are only 2 more divisions. Basically you take 1-3 and divide them into 2 divisions and 4-6 into 2 divisions. If you want to make the cut off different in the lower divisions, then do it. Maybe make 1A 1-150 and 2AA 151-400. And give borderline teams the ability to appeal to drop or move up if they'd like. Once you get into the upper numbers, size is not as big of an issue...imo.

I have been following hs football pretty heavy the past 10 years. Excitement involvement is more today than it has ever been. I believe it has a lot to do with the change in the class system.

 

Wanna alienate people model yourself after these states. I have two masters and my head began to spin reading that mess.

 

It's not the playoff system that makes these places football hotbeds. It's they have multiple times the population and talent of ky.

I hear what you're saying, but to you and your other buddies (lol), enrollment doesn't matter in other sports. KIDDING!

 

My feeling is that any school should be fine competing with schools around a 300 range. I see the lower divisions maybe having a few issues, but how far down to you go then. When do we stop saying okay, well school A is never competitive because they only have 75 boys in their school So they can't play with a team that has 175 kids. Now do we create another division? No, that team of 75 is rarely going to be competitive unless they would only play extremely small schools or we get to about 10 classes.

 

Maybe you do tighten up the range at the lower levels, but expand the ranges when you get to a certain size school. For example, once you're over 400 boys there are only 2 more divisions. Basically you take 1-3 and divide them into 2 divisions and 4-6 into 2 divisions. If you want to make the cut off different in the lower divisions, then do it. Maybe make 1A 1-150 and 2AA 151-400. And give borderline teams the ability to appeal to drop or move up if they'd like. Once you get into the upper numbers, size is not as big of an issue...imo.

 

I agree, I think 151 to 400 is too big of a spread though...but I smell what your cooking.

 

As you were talking about other sports, how many of them need 40 or more players just to field a competitive team and have competitive practices. Some teams of course have close to a 100 players, your not getting 100 out of an enrollment of 200.

RCC9 I think if the KHSAA would give you and I the authority and a couple of days, we could hammer out a deal that 90% would be happy with in all sports and including your favorite tourney...the All-A

As you were talking about other sports, how many of them need 40 or more players just to field a competitive team and have competitive practices. Some teams of course have close to a 100 players, your not getting 100 out of an enrollment of 200.

But, the argument for football being classed has always been, "the more students you have to choose from the better players you will get". I have been vocally against this argument because I think it's more about "Who" you have to choose from, then "how many" you have to choose from. But, if the argument to class sports is valid, then it has to be true for all sports, not just the sport that need more players.

But, the argument for football being classed has always been, "the more students you have to choose from the better players you will get". I have been vocally against this argument because I think it's more about "Who" you have to choose from, then "how many" you have to choose from. But, if the argument to class sports is valid, then it has to be true for all sports, not just the sport that need more players.

Could be, I think that sports outside of Basketball will eventually go to 2 or classes. I don't see Basketball changing just because of the history of the Sweet 16.

Not sure if this was mentioned anywhere but Ohio numbers are only for 3 grades:

 

"The male and female enrollments of our member schools are used to determine OHSAA governance classifications (AAA, AA, A) and the OHSAA tournament divisions for each sport. The enrollment figures below are based on the number of students in grades 9, 10 and 11 enrolled in our member schools"

 

For example Moeller is only listed as having 706 Boys. That is the number in grades 9, 10, 11.