hey, hey...what are you doing? Quit trying to influence the witness!

 

Quit being a Cheerleader!!!

I don't like to think just because a team is 0-10 or 1-9 does not work hard or try their best. Yeah I see where some on here say that the team that is the underdog says they don't wanna be there and if that is the case then if I'm the coach his butt is on the bench.

 

As it is currently set up per the KHSAA this is how it is. Take my Polar Bears. Yes it's true they don't really have a snowballs chance in Haties in winning against Beechwood. We have a extremely young team that is learning the hard way trial by fire. I would like to think that they make this game another learning experience and not just mail it in.

 

To answer the original question YES. The games are necessary. Why you might ask. Well because as it stands right now by the governing body the KHSAA says this is the best format. Now let me ask this. What if and its a big IF one of these games ends up with the 4 seed winning does this current issue become a non issue. What if the Rams loose or beechwood looses to Bracken? Yeah it's highily unlikely I know it almost a given it isn't going to happen like that. But someone once said that my friend is why they play the games. :thumb:

 

In no way am I trying to ruffle anybody's feathers here just my humble opinion. This thread has been a great read very similar to the All A threads in the basketball forum.

I don't really have a dog in the fight, although I lean toward top 3 in the district advancing with district champ getting a bye.

 

That being said, I keep hearing about football players "not wanting to play in hopeless games" (my paraphrasing). If that's the case, they should never have come out for the team in the first place.

 

Exactly. If a player doesn't want to play in the playoff game, perhaps they should have chose another sport.

 

Football is a sport. It is about competition and competing. 4 seeds have won before, especially in the bigger classes.

 

Perhaps 1A and 6A should be bigger. Probably a better solution would be to limit the classes down to even numbers in which each district had 6 teams. Maybe that would only be the 4 class system, I don't know. 6 team districts are more competitive. You have to have won atleast two games.

 

As for the argument about records, your record is really only as good as the teams you have played. There are tough teams across the state with 4 wins to show for the regular season, and teams that may not be as good as their record.

 

If the worst thing that happens this week is that some overmatched teams get to extend their seasons by 4 extra quarters who really loses? I don't see how those kids do. Another game for kids who have put in a ton of work, in the heat and cold getting 48 more minutes is a bad thing? I don't see how the winning team does either? Get experience for younger guys in the playoffs? How is that bad?

 

Before we start on injuries, they happen during games, at practice, at home, or anywhere else. A few years ago a team in our area lost their starting QB because he fell getting off the bus at a game and broke his arm. They are a natural part of sports and could happen anywhere.

 

Lets be honest, this game is bad for the fans. That's the complaint. As a player on either team that doesn't want to go out and compete on a Friday night I don't get that. At best, you get 60 of those nights in your career. Many only get 40-44. Seems like a lot, but even at my age it goes quick and those who foolishly wish them away often end up regretting it.

 

I don't care who you play, you're getting the privilege to play the best game in the world at the highest level that 99% of the players in KY will ever play. Enjoy it.

Could you explain as it pertains to this discussion what is different, besides the fact that "Some" think the Post Season District Tournament isn't part of the state playoffs.

 

I don't believe that the post season district tournament is a part of the state tournament because in order to make it to the state tournament, you have to win a district game in the tournament. The state tournament is separate than the district tournament.

 

I was talking about that football, as a sport, resembles no other sport unless you would consider rugby a popular American sport.

 

I don't like to think just because a team is 0-10 or 1-9 does not work hard or try their best. Yeah I see where some on here say that the team that is the underdog says they don't wanna be there and if that is the case then if I'm the coach his butt is on the bench.

 

As it is currently set up per the KHSAA this is how it is. Take my Polar Bears. Yes it's true they don't really have a snowballs chance in Haties in winning against Beechwood. We have a extremely young team that is learning the hard way trial by fire. I would like to think that they make this game another learning experience and not just mail it in.

 

To answer the original question YES. The games are necessary. Why you might ask. Well because as it stands right now by the governing body the KHSAA says this is the best format. Now let me ask this. What if and its a big IF one of these games ends up with the 4 seed winning does this current issue become a non issue. What if the Rams loose or beechwood looses to Bracken? Yeah it's highily unlikely I know it almost a given it isn't going to happen like that. But someone once said that my friend is why they play the games. :thumb:

 

In no way am I trying to ruffle anybody's feathers here just my humble opinion. This thread has been a great read very similar to the All A threads in the basketball forum.

 

Thank you for your input.

Please no one compare football to other sports. It like comparing apples to boat anchors, they aren't comparable, Football is just it's own unique sport.

 

I will also add a little to what oldrambler said above Lets use basketball as an example. Many are calling the district tournament as part of the 'state tournament". Well, technically it might be, I'm not sure. But to me, it isn't. To me, I look at the district tournament as just like a conference tournament, just a smaller version, and winners of the first round advance to the "state tournament".

 

There is absolutely no reason for a 0-10 Hopkins Co Central who hasn't won a game a believe in 3 years and only 1 game in 4 years to be playing in any type of playoff where they are up against a district winner who we all KNOW (Franklin Simpson) is going to beat them badly and the game probably won't be competitive at all. Same goes for a game like Beechwood and Bracken County. These are games that don't need to be/shouldn't be played. No knock on the schools involved, but in the above example Bracken County and HopCo Central would be a LOT better off playing each other at the end of the season for their last game than playing far superior teams where they are going to get mashed. It gives them a chance to possibly end the season on a upnote and help prepare for the next season.

 

What's the answer? Maybe some sort of flex scheduling? Top two teams in each district advance to playoffs, or maybe top 3 with district winners getting bye first round. As the season draws to a close and teams that know they aren't advancing to the playoffs are allowed to start calling each other and scheduling an 11th and final game for the season against each other. Or maybe some teams are just ready to throw in the towel and call it a season at 10 games, choosing not to schedule an 11th game, up to them. I think something like this is a MUCH better solution than what is being done now.

 

Nothing personal and please don't take offense, but saying basketball district tournament games are not part of the playoffs is the stupidest comment I have read in this thread or anywhere else on BGP in quite a while.

 

This annual thread and why people try to make football the only sport that doesn't include all the teams in their playoffs is just totally befuddling to me. I really don't get it. I read these posts every year and they just aren't logical.

Guys, I have spoke about this for years. Not to do comparisons but just look at some simple facts.

Ohio and Kentucky are similar in that 32 teams per Division/Classe make the playoffs.

Ohio has 713 teams in 7 classes (224 in, 489 out) 31.4% make the playoffs (all reg. season games count)

Ky, has 221 team in 6 Classes (192 in, only 29 out) 86.9% make the playoffs (only 3-4 dist. gms count)

Since Ky will never reduce the number of Classes, they need to take the Top2 in each district, not 4.

0-10, 1-9 teams continuing to make the playoff each year just waters-down how fan think of KY HS football.

Play this game: Take a guess at what the margin of victory (average),after all KY first round games are played,will be.

I will say at least 25 points (average) margin of victory all games, all classes. Some games will be 40, 50 points.

Venues are another issue. In Ky, only the state final game is at neutral site.

Ohio, after first round, all games are at neutral sites. Just using comparison to show the KHSAA, it could be done better IMO.

 

The answer to why Ohio does their playoffs the way they do is in your own thread. There are 713 football teams in Ohio. It isn't feasible to include all those teams in a playoff. That is why they have to reduce the number of teams that qualify. If you look at your own numbers you can see the number of teams in the playoffs is about the same in both states. Why should Kentucky reduce the number of teams in the playoffs when there is no problem including all the teams they do?

:thumb::thumb::thumb:

 

And that concludes the comparison of football to other sports. Now back to original question: Why do we have first round blowouts when none of the "blowoutees" want to be there?

 

I will support the comment made above. If the blowoutees don't want to be there, why are they playing football? Almost surely at least half of their regular season games are similar blowouts with no chance of winning. They didn't want to be there either then, right? I think this is a terrible, weak argument.

Nothing personal and please don't take offense, but saying basketball district tournament games are not part of the playoffs is the stupidest comment I have read in this thread or anywhere else on BGP in quite a while.

 

This annual thread and why people try to make football the only sport that doesn't include all the teams in their playoffs is just totally befuddling to me. I really don't get it. I read these posts every year and they just aren't logical.

 

All I'm going to say and I totally respect your opinion on all subjects...but the guys on the other side of this argument (including me) are just as befuddled as you are as to why you all on the other side don't get what we are saying. The current playoff system for football makes no sense to us and we could care less how many times anyone compares them to other sports. Football (because of the nature of the game) is much different and must be handled differently than any other sport. So every time anyone's argument is "why aren't we worried about the other sports" is because we view them completely different. If the entire argument for the other side is based on "what other sports do" and "what is the harm in letting them all play", then I really don't get the argument at all.

 

I really don't want to get pulled in...my only point is we are just as confused about your side as you are ours!

1) No one else's postseason cuts into the start of another season's sport. Football is still going on (finals) during regular-season basketball's opening week. Soccer and Volleyball, which allow everyone, are already done and have been done for a few weeks at that point. I think this is a good argument for changing the schedule, but not necessarily for shortening the playoffs.

 

2) To go along with 1, no one else's postseason lasts five weeks. Usually three at most. Two in some cases (individual sports). Basketball is usually about four weeks. Plus, there are only 4 teams per class going beyond three weeks (only 2 teams per class going beyond the same four weeks as basketball) and I don't think any of them are going to be complaining.

 

3) Football is the ONLY sport where you are NOT knocked out by a district rival right out of the gate.They tried that a few years ago and football coaches HATED having intra-district play for rounds one and 2 (not see a different district til round 3).So? If there is a problem with this, then you just schedule the first round games as inter-district games.

 

4) Playoffs in every other sport don't involve near the travel. When Fort Knox gets beat in basketball, it's a 20-minute drive for a running clock. 20-minute drive to get run ruled in baseball/softball, 20-minute drive to get 10-goaled in soccer. Put FK in the football playoffs and they're going 1-2 HOURS to get crushed in the cold. This is a valid argument with merit. Congratulations.

 

5) To go along with five, teams lose money in the first round in football. If you're the visiting team, you gotta pay for gas for food for what could be your longest road trip of the season. If you're the home team, the visiting team ain't bringing anyone if they're a 0-10/1-9, 2-8 four seed. And your own fans probably won't show up because it's a laugher, it's cold and basketball is on (scrimmages, although UK home basketball opener is on a Friday night during second week of playoffs). I think there is some merit to this one also.

 

6) No other sport (with the exception of 6-A) do you have as much home-field advantage as you do in football. Six teams in football might not have to leave home until the very last game. In other sports, you're lucky to home field for the district tourney. Even less for the region. 1-in-2 to host a state first-round game in soccer, but your final three games are at neutral sites. Your final four games (sweet 16, elite 8, final four, championship) in baseball/softball, basketball, volleyball are all at neutral sites.What dioes this have to do with extra teams being in the playoffs? If you reduced the number of teams in the playoffs, that doesn't change that games will be played at one of the team's home field. This point has nothing to do with the argument here.

 

7) Every other team sport has random draw for the final three rounds, and every sport but soccer and football have them for final four rounds. Playoffs become old and tiresome in football. BG vs. JH in final four? Yeah, like we haven't seen that before. 6-A is the only one that switches it up even a little, but even then it gets old if you're opposite the Louisville super district.You see many of the same teams over and over in other sports too. I kind of like the random draw idea. With the current class structure teams are often traveling very long distances anyway so why not do a draw or rotation to change it up. Beechwood probably would have been in 2 or 3 more championship games if there were this type of system in place so I like this idea. But again, it has nothing to do with there being too many teams in the playoffs. If you reduce the number of teams, it isn't going to impact the top teams.

 

8) No other sport makes a big deal about "making" the playoffs. In football, many teams don't "make" it at all.I've seen football coaches' resumes talk about playoff appearances and postseason wins. In other sports, they're referring to what you do at State. I am not sure what your point is here either. I don't see teams making a big deal or bragging about just making the playoffs.

 

CK ... I will give you credit for bringing some fresh thoughts to an old worn out debate. I addressed your comments in blue inside your post above.

No kid on any team I played on would tank plays or say they didn't want to be there. I personally would have eliminated that kid in practice by crushing him every chance I got. If that didn't work we would have had an "intimate" talk in the locker room. Just to be clear I'm not talking about the less than athletic kid who gives 100% but just isn't that good. We're talking the kids who quit mentally and effort wise. I don't like quitters. I lined up many nights knowing were probably would lose, that never kept me from trying. The kids who don't want to be there I think are far and few.

I personally would have eliminated that kid in practice by crushing him every chance I got.

 

Wow. Exactly how does that work or would I even want to know?

I haven't read this entire thread, but if there were no first round then 2 of the top five teams in the state (T & M) would be finished for the year.

I haven't read this entire thread, but if there were no first round then 2 of the top five teams in the state (T & M) would be finished for the year.

 

Understand...But they are an extreme exception to the rule AND I would say then they should have taken care of business when it mattered! And I bet if they were eliminated, schools like that would agree 100% with the statement "should have taken care of business" because they don't look for excuses. They play in an extremely tough district and that would stink for the losers of that district. But they would know what they needed to do before the season even started. As much as it would stink for that district...that is the only district in the entire state that it would effect like that.

I am completely okay with making the regular season matter more by only taking top 2, but they would need some type of at large system to allow some other teams. The issue lies in the fact that all districts are not created equal. They would need to come up with a better formula for making the post season before they limit the teams getting in. I personally really like the Ohio system although I realize it has it's flaws.

Understand...But they are an extreme exception to the rule AND I would say then they should have taken care of business when it mattered! And I bet if they were eliminated, schools like that would agree 100% with the statement "should have taken care of business" because they don't look for excuses. They play in an extremely tough district and that would stink for the losers of that district. But they would know what they needed to do before the season even started. As much as it would stink for that district...that is the only district in the entire state that it would effect like that.

 

Now Now....I thought we were riding the bench on this!