For those that don't think this country was founded primarily on Christian beliefs, one just has to look at the early settlers that came over. They weren't leaving England or other societies to ESCAPE religion, far from it. Many, if not te vast majority left so they could practice THEIR branch of religion without persecution

 

Roman Catholics were the first major religious group to immigrate to the New World, as settlers in the colonies of Portugal and Spain (and later, France) were required to belong to that faith. English and Dutch colonies, on the other hand, tended to be more religiously diverse. Settlers to these colonies included Anglicans, Dutch Calvinists, English Puritans, English Catholics, Scottish Presbyterians, French Huguenots, German and Swedish Lutherans, as well as Quakers, Mennonites, Amish, Moravians and Jews of various nationalities.

 

Many groups of colonists went to the Americas searching for the right to practice their religion without persecution. The Protestant Reformation of the 16th century broke the unity of Western Christendom and led to the formation of numerous new religious sects, which often faced persecution by governmental authorities. In England, many people came to question the organization of the Church of England by the end of the 16th century. One of the primary manifestations of this was the Puritan movement, which sought to "purify" the existing Church of England of its many residual Catholic rites that they believed had no mention in the Bible.

 

A strong believer in the notion of rule by divine right, Charles I, King of England and Scotland, persecuted religious dissenters. Waves of repression led to the migration of about 20,000 Puritans to New England between 1629 and 1642, where they founded multiple colonies. Later in the century, the new Pennsylvania colony was given to William Penn in settlement of a debt the king owed his father. Its government was set up by William Penn in about 1682 to become primarily a refuge for persecuted English Quakers; but others were welcomed. Baptists, Quakers and German and Swiss Protestants flocked to Pennsylvania. The lure of cheap land, religious freedom and the right to improve themselves with their own hand was very attractive

 

European colonization of the Americas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Hey, and how about this? Huh, who'da thunk.

 

Religion in Early America

 

 

•Most states in early America had established churches

•Established Church: a church officially supported (and paid for) by the government

•Dissenters from established churches were tolerated but not always treated equally

•First Amendment originally limited only federal government, not state governments

•First Amendment contains two clauses on religion: Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause

 

First, we need to remember that when the First Amendment was drafted, most of the newly independent states of the United States already had established churches. These churches were the "official" religion in their colonies and were paid for by taxes collected by the government. Dissenters, or members of churches that disagreed with the established church, were tolerated in every colony, but they had to accept certain restrictions as a result of their religious choice. Many had to pay taxes to support the established church despite their disagreements with it, and many were barred from holding public office.

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Religion in Early America

 

Again here...not escape from religion, but FREEDDOM to PRACTICE their religion.

 

Land of Religious Freedom

 

The land that became America brought many of its first colonists hope for the freedom to practice their own religious beliefs.

 

Understanding Religion in America: Beginning Influences on the Colonies

 

Early colonists using the bible.

 

The reason early Americans became the most literate people on earth is because of their profound dependence on the principles and laws of the Bible as their guide for building a godly civilization in the North American wilderness.

 

Religion in Early American Education

 

One can agree or disagree with the principle, but the fact remains that early American settlers were far and away rooted in Christian principles and those principles helped govern everyday life and were EXPECTED to be woven into the context of government.

 

And it was because of "Established Churches" that the First Amendment of the Bill of Rights promised No state church and Religious LIBERTY. They knew that the government must be neutral on matters of faith and practice because they had seen the State and Church debacles in Europe and in the Colonies.

 

What's also surprising is that Baptists led the way to seeing to it that the notion of State Religion was secured in the Bill of Rights. Now, many want to marry the Girl (state).

And it was because of "Established Churches" that the First Amendment of the Bill of Rights promised No state church and Religious LIBERTY. They knew that the government must be neutral on matters of faith and practice because they had seen the State and Church debacles in Europe and in the Colonies.

 

What's also surprising is that Baptists led the way to seeing to it that the notion of State Religion was secured in the Bill of Rights. Now, many want to marry the Girl (state).

 

Read a little more carefully Hatz. Actually the first amendment had NOTHING to do with the individual states and what they may had established, only prevented the FEDERAL government from establishing such. And as a matter of fact this was not an issue at the federal level in the early years. But regardless, the post was meant to show the huge amount of Christian threads that permeated the early fabric of this country, something some people would say wasn't true, but it definitely was.

I may be wrong but I think Hatz was using "state" as representing the governing power.

I may be wrong but I think Hatz was using "state" as representing the governing power.

 

Correct.

Correct.

 

Thanks Hatz :jump:

Thanks Hatz :jump:

Welcome:banana:

Correct.

 

Ok, now I'm lost. At first I thought he was disagreeing with my post, so then I replied to back my argument. Now I'm totally confused.

Read a little more carefully Hatz. Actually the first amendment had NOTHING to do with the individual states and what they may had established, only prevented the FEDERAL government from establishing such. And as a matter of fact this was not an issue at the federal level in the early years. But regardless, the post was meant to show the huge amount of Christian threads that permeated the early fabric of this country, something some people would say wasn't true, but it definitely was.

 

No one would argue that the settlers and colonialists weren't predominately Christian. What most object to is the notion that the country was designed to be a "Christian nation" or that the Constitution somehow enshrines Christian principles into its government. I think it's evident that many of the "founders" believed that religious liberty wasn't possible if the government were being used for religious purposes.

 

Jefferson's 1786 Virginia Act For Establishing Religious Freedom, is a clear explication of his idea of religious liberty and I think the thrust of the act indicates he did indeed intend for church and state to remain separate. James Madison - generally considered the main author of the constitution and Bill of Rights - often cited and revered Jefferson's conception of religious liberty, which can also be found throughout Madison's writings. As president, Madison specifically cited Jefferson's Virginia Act during a controversy over chaplains in Congress:

 

The danger of silent accumulations & encroachments by Ecclesiastical Bodies have not sufficiently engaged attention in the U. S. They have the noble merit of first unshackling the conscience from persecuting laws, and of establishing among religious Sects a legal equality. If some of the States have not embraced this just and this truly Xn principle in its proper latitude, all of them present examples by which the most enlightened States of the old world may be instructed; and there is one State at least, Virginia, where religious liberty is placed on its true foundation and is defined in its full latitude. The general principle is contained in her declaration of rights, prefixed to her Constitution: but it is unfolded and defined, in its precise extent, in the act of the Legislature, usually named the Religious Bill, which passed into a law in the year 1786. Here the separation between the authority of human laws, and the natural rights of Man excepted from the grant on which all political authority is founded, is traced as distinctly as words can admit, and the limits to this authority established with as much solemnity as the forms of legislation can express. The law has the further advantage of having been the result of a formal appeal to the sense of the Community and a deliberate sanction of a vast majority, comprizing every sect of Christians in the State. This act is a true standard of Religious liberty: its principle the great barrier agst usurpations on the rights of conscience. As long as it is respected & no longer, these will be safe. Every provision for them short of this principle, will be found to leave crevices at least thro' which bigotry may introduce persecution; a monster, that feeding & thriving on its own venom, gradually swells to a size and strength overwhelming all laws divine & human.

 

Ye States of America, which retain in your Constitutions or Codes, any aberration from the sacred principle of religious liberty, by giving to Caesar what belongs to God, or joining together what God has put asunder, hasten to revise & purify your systems, and make the example of your Country as pure & compleat, in what relates to the freedom of the mind and its allegiance to its maker, as in what belongs to the legitimate objects of political & civil institutions.

 

Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion & Govt in the Constitution of the United States the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history.

 

I think the consensus among them is that the use of the state to promote a particular religion is a violation of religious liberty, whether it is because taxes from all people must go to support the trappings of a particular religion or the law compels all citizens to participate in a particular religious practice. I think this debate also demonstrates the muddiness of attempting to figure out precisely what was intended by the constitution. For every Madison and Jefferson an opponent of religious liberty, or the separation of church and state, can likely find another president or "Founder" who had no qualms about the state promoting or favoring a particular religion.

I think the consensus among them is that the use of the state to promote a particular religion is a violation of religious liberty, whether it is because taxes from all people must go to support the trappings of a particular religion or the law compels all citizens to participate in a particular religious practice. I think this debate also demonstrates the muddiness of attempting to figure out precisely what was intended by the constitution. For every Madison and Jefferson an opponent of religious liberty, or the separation of church and state, can likely find another president or "Founder" who had no qualms about the state promoting or favoring a particular religion.

 

Don't disagree with what you posted. But my point was more to the fact that many of the individual colony/states had decided on a particular Christian religion to help govern that individual colony/state. And the 1st amendment actually did nothing to quell that, but rather said the state (in this usage meaning the Federal government as a whole) wouldn't make a national religion. Thus showing, I believe, a HUGE Christian influence on how the country was founded and run in the early days. I think there are some that just want to deny that, but facts can't be denied.

 

Of course, the states were much more free in those days to govern themselves and do what they saw fit/left to their own devices for the most part with little federal gov't oversight. The federal govt was supposed to be nothing compared to what it has become today and has MUCH more oversight and say so over the states than many of the founding fathers envisioned. Not all of them, but a lot.

And while Islamic radicals do pose a threat to the United States, mostly from afar, many conservative Christians pose a threat to this country domestically. These people, empowered by the tea party in the last few years, are doing everything they can to dumb down this country and turn it into some kind of theocracy. Instead of having debates on how to combat climate change, we’re stuck trying to convince tens of millions of people that God didn’t use a tornado to “punish” sinners. Instead of figuring out how to make the United States a world leader in math and science, we’re debating whether or not the story of Noah’s ark should be in the chapter following the mapping of human DNA in science books. Instead of embracing some of the most educated and intelligent among us, millions of Americans would rather listen to a bearded redneck from backwoods Louisiana tell them how the United States needs to be more “godly.” And somehow “being godly” seems to mostly revolve around a strong disdain for homosexuals. It’s absurd. - See more at: We Must Stop Allowing Far Right Conservative Christians to Dumb Down and Radicalize This Country

 

 

Did I write this article? Right -wing conservative Christians need their own planet. Maybe they can be transported someday soon to one of those exo-planets that scientists have discovered, preferably the one that is 12.7 billion light years away from here.

Did I write this article? Right -wing conservative Christians need their own planet. Maybe they can be transported someday soon to one of those exo-planets that scientists have discovered, preferably the one that is 12.7 billion light years away from here.

That'd be perfect. Far enough to be safe from this planet and all the liberal lefty pseudo-geniuses as they're consumed by fire. Great plan.

Mosque leaders are accused of trying to cut off a man's hand with a 2 foot machete, story on theblaze.com. More Sharia law that is not taking place in the US. I do not think, or at least hope, Sharia Law will never be a part of US law, but they are trying real hard for it to happen.

Mosque leaders are accused of trying to cut off a man's hand with a 2 foot machete, story on theblaze.com. More Sharia law that is not taking place in the US. I do not think, or at least hope, Sharia Law will never be a part of US law, but they are trying real hard for it to happen.

 

Were they inflicting the punishment on one of their own parishoners? Still illegal but it brings a different slant to the story IMO.

Were they inflicting the punishment on one of their own parishoners? Still illegal but it brings a different slant to the story IMO.

 

It was one of their own members that they accused of stealing.

Will science and religion ever peacefully coexist?

During the Islamic Golden Age in the 13th thru 15th centuries, Islam led the world in science, mathematics, medicine, architecture and many other areas. The collapse of that scientific community was due partly to outside influencs (Mongol invasions) and partly to internal influences (religious oppression of free thinking.)