I don't understand why religion and science have to be conflicting theories. If one believes that God is the Creator, the fact that Creation can be explained doesn't negate the Science. God is the Great Director.

Your first two sentences answers nothing in my opinion (for me anyway), unless you're just basing that statement on faith alone, which I have no problem with. But just stating something like that doesn't make it true. Can you see where a skeptical person would have problems with an answer like that?

 

Which is where the third sentence comes in. You're asking for evidence where there is none. No answer will be satisfactory. So continuing to ask such a question is an exercise in futility. The nature of God is a matter of faith, not science or even philosophy.

 

And if you think I don't understand the skepticism, then you greatly misunderstand me.

Scenario A is harder to believe, because there is so much proof and evidence of Scenario B being fact.

 

I personally believe in Scenario B. I'm a firm believer that 95% of the things that happen in ones life are a direct result of things they have chosen to do or not to do. When it comes to illness, I just think that is nature being nature. Every one of us is built differently, and every one of us will handle a sickness or illness differently. When someone recovers from an illness, it's because they received the correct medical attention and their body responded in a positive way to it. Not because a higher power intervened and saved the individual.

 

I've had this conversation on a few occasions before, and one thing that has always seemed to spark a good debate is the idea that bad things happen to good people. If you are supposed to live your life the right way, treat people the right way, etc. under the word of God, why do such terrible things happen to the greatest people we know? I've heard the "God doesn't give you more than you can handle." Okay, but aren't you supposed to be rewarded for living "the right way?"

 

I do believe in Karma, but only to an extent. I believe that if a person is always mistreating others, being in bad situations and making the wrong decisions, eventually they will come upon an occasion where being in that bad situation will finally bite them. Same goes for the other side of the spectrum... If you are always doing good for someone(s), being in positive situations, eventually something in one of those situations will greatly (the definition of great would vary from person to person) benefit you.

 

I do not look down upon those people who are very strong in their faith of God, I actually admire it. I think it's awesome that so many people are able to have that faith in a higher power, and that helps drive them in their daily lives. I just have never felt that faith personally, I guess because I'm a "Believe none of what you hear, and only half of what you see" kinda guy....

I've never been able to fully understand how a rock exploded and life spontaneously formed and from that life, every single living plant and animal cell on the Earth was spawned.

I've never been able to fully understand how a rock exploded and life spontaneously formed and from that life' date=' every single living plant and animal cell on the Earth was spawned.[/quote']

 

And I don't believe that the Bible's 7 day scenario is literal.

 

I've had this conversation on a few occasions before, and one thing that has always seemed to spark a good debate is the idea that bad things happen to good people. If you are supposed to live your life the right way, treat people the right way, etc. under the word of God, why do such terrible things happen to the greatest people we know? I've heard the "God doesn't give you more than you can handle." Okay, but aren't you supposed to be rewarded for living "the right way?"

 

If you are a good person and are actively submitting your will to God, you will get your "reward" in eternal happiness with God. There is no reward or prize or feeling on earth more real than eternal life with God.

 

Terrible things happen to everybody, including good people, so that they can offer the suffering for God and for the souls in purgatory.

Which is where the third sentence comes in. You're asking for evidence where there is none. No answer will be satisfactory. So continuing to ask such a question is an exercise in futility. The nature of God is a matter of faith, not science or even philosophy.

 

And if you think I don't understand the skepticism, then you greatly misunderstand me.

 

Would you say then that everyone has a little bit of skepticism but choose to go with Pascal's Wager of it's better to be safe than sorry? If that's the case them most of people's beliefs are based more on fear than faith. And the Bible is written in a way to establish fear, because IMO without fear, and hell, it would certainly hinder the numbers of faithful in most religions.

 

I have a problem with the whole concept of the way the belief system in Christianity is established. I mean, let's take the idea of revelation. Man has been on the earth quite a while, at least man than can function and make tools and find a way to survive. Probably been around for at least 100,000 years or more. These people had their gods and demons and prayed to the natural elements around them for help in surviving, and for a way of understanding things that they had no scientific way of understanding. Then beginning about 3,000 years ago God decides "enough of this" and reveals himself to several sheep herders and others in a small area of the Middle East. And some of these people are so impressed by some of these revelations (and who wouldn't be. If a burning bush talked to me or I saw people raised from the dead I would be more than impressed) that they became followers and started writing down all the inspirations, visions, and revelations they received from God. This continued through both the Old and New Testaments accounts. Then suddenly He decides to stop the revelations, at least the amazing kinds of the Bible, and basicly tell the rest of us from that point on, "Okay, I revealed myself to these ancient people to get my message out there and so on, but from here on out you will have to believe what you read in the scriptures are true, and on that reading base your belief in me in faith alone."

Why this kind of game? If God wanted to do these revelations today I'm sure nearly every person on earth would be down on their knees praying, just like those ancient people in the Middle East 2 to 3 thousand years ago. Why set up a system like that. "I've created you and you had better believe it or you'll pay a terrible price. But I've decided not to give you the hard evidence I gave Moses, Noah, and others. You'll just have to simply believe what you've read is true and base your belief on that.

Vincent Bugliosi in his book 'Divinity Of Doubt' says, "....why have you chosen to be absent from your own world. There should be nothing you would not want us mortals to see. I ask now that you--or any apparition if you that you want, appear in the sky above so as to be captured for history by worldwide television. And at a distance I would ask you to show the world what hell looks like. It's not as if what I'm asking you to do is something completely new to you. After all, if you chose to let a mere camp full of Israelites at the bottom of Mount Sinai know of your presence atop the mountain as you spoke to Moses so that, you said, they would have confidence in him and follow the Ten Commandments you gave him to give them, for the very same reason of causing humans to treat their fellow man better here on earth, you should all the more be willing to do this for the billions of people that now inhabit the earth"

And I don't believe that the Bible's 7 day scenario is literal.

Nor do I. I think man is a little full of themselves if they think that they have any concept of God's time.

Professor, your thoughts are so similar to my Dad's. He believed I God, but he did not believe in Organized Religion. He also believed that Organized Religion was about money. When I was little, I was terrified he wouldn't go to Heaven because he wasn't baptized. When he was in the hospital, he was visited by a priest and argued with him even then about the issue. A scant few weeks later, I had left after visiting him the last time, and my mother called to tell me he asked to be baptized. When I left that afternoon he wasn't conscious. I have no idea if he regained consciousness and asked, or if my mother took it upon herself to have it done. But it haunts me. And much as I believe in God, as much as I am a Catholic, I have come to believe much like my dad. I guess some would say I am in the midst of a crisis of faith. Bit what my dad believed made so much sense. And ad good and kind and caring a man as he was, I struggle to believe that he wouldn't have gone yo heaven any way, despite my believing that he had to be baptized to do so.

 

I think it is a testament to his belief that each must find their own way, and respect of others beliefs, that he allowed us to be raised Catholic and attend all our baptisms and first communions and confirmations.

Nor do I. I think man is a little full of themselves if they think that they have any concept of God's time.

 

Exactly!

Would you say then that everyone has a little bit of skepticism but choose to go with Pascal's Wager of it's better to be safe than sorry? If that's the case them most of people's beliefs are based more on fear than faith. And the Bible is written in a way to establish fear, because IMO without fear, and hell, it would certainly hinder the numbers of faithful in most religions.

 

I have a problem with the whole concept of the way the belief system in Christianity is established. I mean, let's take the idea of revelation. Man has been on the earth quite a while, at least man than can function and make tools and find a way to survive. Probably been around for at least 100,000 years or more. These people had their gods and demons and prayed to the natural elements around them for help in surviving, and for a way of understanding things that they had no scientific way of understanding. Then beginning about 3,000 years ago God decides "enough of this" and reveals himself to several sheep herders and others in a small area of the Middle East. And some of these people are so impressed by some of these revelations (and who wouldn't be. If a burning bush talked to me or I saw people raised from the dead I would be more than impressed) that they became followers and started writing down all the inspirations, visions, and revelations they received from God. This continued through both the Old and New Testaments accounts. Then suddenly He decides to stop the revelations, at least the amazing kinds of the Bible, and basicly tell the rest of us from that point on, "Okay, I revealed myself to these ancient people to get my message out there and so on, but from here on out you will have to believe what you read in the scriptures are true, and on that reading base your belief in me in faith alone."

Why this kind of game? If God wanted to do these revelations today I'm sure nearly every person on earth would be down on their knees praying, just like those ancient people in the Middle East 2 to 3 thousand years ago. Why set up a system like that. "I've created you and you had better believe it or you'll pay a terrible price. But I've decided not to give you the hard evidence I gave Moses, Noah, and others. You'll just have to simply believe what you've read is true and base your belief on that.

Vincent Bugliosi in his book 'Divinity Of Doubt' says, "....why have you chosen to be absent from your own world. There should be nothing you would not want us mortals to see. I ask now that you--or any apparition if you that you want, appear in the sky above so as to be captured for history by worldwide television. And at a distance I would ask you to show the world what hell looks like. It's not as if what I'm asking you to do is something completely new to you. After all, if you chose to let a mere camp full of Israelites at the bottom of Mount Sinai know of your presence atop the mountain as you spoke to Moses so that, you said, they would have confidence in him and follow the Ten Commandments you gave him to give them, for the very same reason of causing humans to treat their fellow man better here on earth, you should all the more be willing to do this for the billions of people that now inhabit the earth"

 

I would say that God still does show Himself in human life. Sure, He does not have burning bushes or anything "spectacular," but what about all the advancements in humans and technology? Isn't that God revealing himself? Think about the complexity of earth, how many different species we have and how these species have changed over time. There has to be some entity which has an effect on all this.

 

Also, I think God does not reveal himself because that's how our Faith is tested. Eventually he will come and reveal himself, on Judgement Day. It could be tomorrow, or it could be 10,000 years from now. The Church teaches that we know neither the day nor the hour, therefore it is important to always act like Christ and keep your relationship with God strong (have a strong Faith.).

 

As for people only believing out of fear, I don't think that is the case as often as you do. "I'd rather be safe than sorry" cannot apply to faith. A true moral Faith is based on actually believing, not believing "just in case."

I believe in the first one, that's the way I was born and raised.

Belief in God does not preclude belief in science and vice versa.

^ agree with this.

 

His ways are higher than our ways, His thoughts are higher than our thoughts.

 

It's not something we will ever be able to figure out. But I live by the premise that every knee shall bow, every tongue confess that Christ is Lord. I just prefer to do it this side of judgement.

I believe in both scenarios . In my opinion they are not mutually exclusive .