I've never been able to fully understand how a rock exploded and life spontaneously formed and from that life, every single living plant and animal cell on the Earth was spawned.

 

Exactly. Whats the chances of dust exploding in space forming all the things we know in the universe. All the life cycles, all plants, animals, insects, etc. To me there just has to be a grand designer, it all seems like it was designed to me. Hard to believe all this works perfectly just on coincidence I mean whats the chances in that? If people want to believe everything on this earth exists because some dust exploded in space and we evolved out of a primordial sea of algae then thats cool I guess. I just have to think there is something more, something divine. Something that set it all in motion.

Belief in God does not preclude belief in science and vice versa.

 

Agreed. Never understood why so many take to science to discredit God, for me God is science. I look at it as if science is just a way to explain God and his miracles, his blueprints.

Prime mover. Who said, "Go"?

Exactly. Whats the chances of dust exploding in space forming all the things we know in the universe. All the life cycles, all plants, animals, insects, etc. To me there just has to be a grand designer, it all seems like it was designed to me. Hard to believe all this works perfectly just on coincidence I mean whats the chances in that? If people want to believe everything on this earth exists because some dust exploded in space and we evolved out of a primordial sea of algae then thats cool I guess. I just have to think there is something more, something divine. Something that set it all in motion.

 

But, the alternative you are giving us, supernatural phenomenon and magic, is just as baffling and hard to believe, at least for me. Not saying it didn't happen but it seems so far fetched, and zero proof, that it has to require blind faith to make it work for the individual. But that's okay. If it works for that person why not. I've always said religions serve basicly 3 purposes for humans. They answer these 3 questions: (1) How did it all start? How did we get here? (2) What are we suppose to do while we're here? (3) What happens to us after we die?

 

It makes life better and certainly gives hope and comfort, especially at funerals or during tragedies. Nothing wrong with that.

But' date=' the alternative you are giving us, supernatural phenomenon and magic, is just as baffling and hard to believe, at least for me. Not saying it didn't happen but it seems so far fetched, and zero proof, that it has to require blind faith to make it work for the individual. But that's okay. If it works for that person why not. I've always said religions serve basicly 3 purposes for humans. They answer these 3 questions: (1) How did it all start? How did we get here? (2) What are we suppose to do while we're here? (3) What happens to us after we die? It makes life better and certainly gives hope and comfort, especially at funerals or during tragedies. Nothing wrong with that.[/quote']

 

I don't think it's a stretch to think there's a higher form of being in the universe, I would hope humanity is not the highest form of intelligence. I just feel there is something far more advanced than we are. What "it" is can be debated, but I think there's a higher force at work, something we probably can't even comprehend.

 

 

Also like I said in the other thread my opinions come from profound spiritual and religious experiences so that's why I feel the way I do. I was kind of ho hum on the subject most of my life and didn't care either way. However, after I had multiple things happen to me spiritually I began to believe more faithfully in a higher existence.

Also just think about the little nuances in the world we live in. All the different purposes for things, our atmosphere, life cycles, animal kingdoms, etc. I mean it takes bees and insects to pollinate plants, it takes sunlight to accomplish photosynthesis and there are just so many processes that depend on everything working harmoniously. Is all this just happening by chance? What's the mathematical probability in that? Almost impossible?

 

If you look at how earth, the solar system , universe, etc. works it seems as if it was designed. Everything was designed to work a certain way and now we have got to the point to where man is trying to intervene and manipulate for our purposes. It just seems profound that everything works the way it does, flawlessly. I mean think of your own body for Christ sake. I can type this post on my phone, while watching tv, while carrying on convo with something in person. My brain is sending signals like a fiber optic super highway to every part of my body and it is responding with amazing accuracy. Just think of your body and it's systems, really think about how it works and operates. IMO, one of the most perfect creations of all time, just hard for me to believe it evolved from a single celled pool of algae and goo.

I think its way more likely that someone (God) created the world than an explosion lead to life. I don't even see how that is remotely possible. I don't think anything that isn't living is going to come to life because of an explosion or collision. I think evolution happens, but I don't think the Big Bang is likely, no matter how much science tries to say that it is. And I don't think 6 days was literal either.

I think its way more likely that someone (God) created the world than an explosion lead to life. I don't even see how that is remotely possible. I don't think anything that isn't living is going to come to life because of an explosion or collision. I think evolution happens, but I don't think the Big Bang is likely, no matter how much science tries to say that it is. And I don't think 6 days was literal either.

 

I keep hearing that the Big Bang isn't possible, and it makes much more sense that a creator created everything. But I will ask this again, because the answers I've got on here so far hasn't answered the question to my satisfaction: If God created everything then who or what created God? I don't see how something can just always be, as some have explained. That makes no sense at all. It would be more logical to try to find an explanation from science and natural/physical laws of the universe than to rely on magic and the supernatural. I mean, the beginning of everything will probably never be known, but our best avenue for discovery is through science, not magic. There's an answer to how it all began but we may never know that answer. It's nearly impossible to prove something like that, but man should always strive to find the best answer possible through science and research.

I keep hearing that the Big Bang isn't possible, and it makes much more sense that a creator created everything. But I will ask this again, because the answers I've got on here so far hasn't answered the question to my satisfaction: If God created everything then who or what created God? I don't see how something can just always be, as some have explained. That makes no sense at all. It would be more logical to try to find an explanation from science and natural/physical laws of the universe than to rely on magic and the supernatural. I mean, the beginning of everything will probably never be known, but our best avenue for discovery is through science, not magic. There's an answer to how it all began but we may never know that answer. It's nearly impossible to prove something like that, but man should always strive to find the best answer possible through science and research.

 

To me the idea that God has always been is even more likely that the Big Bang. I just don't see how if I take two rocks and smash them together that life will eventually form. The fact that it so difficult for a planet to have the characteristics necessary for life I think add to this. The earth's distance from the sun and the makeup of the earth. I just don't think that's likely an accident.

 

To me, I think that it is extremely unlikely that space matter collided and gave us all the things we have today. How do we go from being "rocks" to eventually evolving into many different species? How did any of that turn into people who are capable of thinking, emotions that other animals really don't have such as empathy. Just don't think its likely is all I'm saying.

I keep hearing that the Big Bang isn't possible' date=' and it makes much more sense that a creator created everything. But I will ask this again, because the answers I've got on here so far hasn't answered the question to my satisfaction: If God created everything then who or what created God? I don't see how something can just always be, as some have explained. That makes no sense at all. It would be more logical to try to find an explanation from science and natural/physical laws of the universe than to rely on magic and the supernatural. I mean, the beginning of everything will probably never be known, but our best avenue for discovery is through science, not magic. There's an answer to how it all began but we may never know that answer. It's nearly impossible to prove something like that, but man should always strive to find the best answer possible through science and research.[/quote']

 

Our existence isn't the same as what a "Gods" existence would be. Someone could create us and our universe and be "our God". Who's to say there's not other existences outside of what we know who also have "Gods" or divine sources? It's not hard for me to fathom higher intelligences and beings, there could be all kinds who knows.

 

As for depending on science and logic, nothing has all the answers and nothing ever will. To apply science to discredit an existence of a God just doesn't make sense. Who's to say science isn't just proving an existence of God? Science explains how things work but why does it work that way or who made it that way? To me God is science, science is just a way for us to explain or understand a higher source.

If the big big happened the way most science buffs and atheists contend, who caused the bang? Where did the gas come from the explode in the first place? Who put any of that into existence if it was just nothingness or just floating gas or rock? Where did it all come from and how did it all get set into motion?

 

 

So to me even if a Big Bang did happen to create life there was likely something that set it into motion.

 

 

Just because we can't understand things the way we comprehend them as humans don't mean they're not possible. Like I said a higher being would be far more intelligent or advanced than we would ever think about so just because we can't create these things as humans doesn't mean it's not possible for a higher being or a divine source. I mean as advanced as we are getting man is starting to play gods themselves (unfortunately). If we can start to achieve such things as humans I am interested to see what something more than us could do. I just don't want to accept we are all that's to the universe, I would hate to think we are the highest forms of life, intelligence and being. Unfortunately we've got to a point in society where we think man created God instead of vice versa. A big reason for that is ego, 95% of humanity will live their entire life without sacrificing their ego. Ego death is essential in understanding things you may not want to accept. Our egos are biologically programmed to keep us going and keep us believing we are everything, but yet we are nothing. Everything we know in our existence is just biological tricks to keep our species going. In the grand scheme of things we are nothing, just like a grain of sand in all the worlds beaches combined, nothing (yet people think they are everything). We shall humble ourselves before we can be enlightened.

I suggest you guys do some research on the pineal gland and it's possible purpose for being in the human body, very interesting and intriguing. It could possibly be the missing link in this whole discussion, the evidence we are connected to something we cannot explain.

 

For those who don't know the pineal gland is a tiny symmetrical organ in the exact center of your brain. Much is unknown about it, very mysterious. However, ancient peoples such as Hindu's have known about it hundred or even thousands of years before modern science (hence why they wear the third eye representation on their forehead). This gland is responsible for mystical and spiritual experiences but more specifically related to body function it produces melatonin, serotonin, and DMT (which I'll have to get into in waaaaay more detail later). Melatonin is responsible for regulating sleep wake cycle and serotonin obviously mood and pain.

 

What's fascinating though is the DMT or N-N Dimethyltryptamine. This substance is found naturally in us as well as almost every other living organism on the planet. Out brain produces it in large doses at moment of birth and moment of death, also sometimes during heavy REM sleep (causing crazy dreams). It is also the most potent psychadelic known to man, in fact it is so profound and psychadelic it is even alien to LSD, psybicilin, mescaline, and things of that nature. Again it's odd because our own brain produces it. Why would we all have this substance that induces life changing and profound experiences? Could this be the location of a "soul" or similar idea? Go check out some DMT experience reports and get back to me on that one. There was a Dr., Rick Strassman who performed a study on DMT and the experience reports are so crazy, it's mind blowing stuff. I suggest you all research it a little bit because I think it can be related to an afterlife as it also parallels experiences people have in near death experiences. Shamanic tribes in South America have utilized the substance for thousands of years in the form of a brew called Ahyuasca. Fascinating, fascinating stuff. I think the pineal gland and this DMT in particular may be something that gives us access to the divine or the spirit world if you will, thus why it's called "the spirit molecule". There is a documentary by the same name based on Strassmans book, it's on netflix I suggest you all check it out, very interesting and eye opening/mind blowing.

Here are a couple of art works from artist Alex Grey, he has had a lot of experience in the so called DMT world and has painted from his experiences. When people have these experiences they cannot even put it into words, its life altering and so profound. They basically go to totally different world totally foreign to our own, thus I find it hard to think its just an effect our brain produces (how can you create a whole new world/reality that you've never known about or seen). Furthermore people are actually in these worlds, not just seeing it, they claim they go there. Shamans and big time Buddhist monks or yogis say this is basically like going to an overlook of the otherside and say its as far as you can go without breaking the thread of our known reality. Furthermore people claim to encounter beings in this world some good and loving some bad and evil. Just the stuff they claim is so crazy it would be hard to make it up.

But heres a couple of Alex's representations of some of his experiences. The strange thing is he has claimed strangers have came to him and thanked him for some of his works claiming they have been to the same places or saw the same things. WILD and CRAZY STUFF!!!