I knew the socialism card was going to come out because that is all people can think to play when they do not understand or agree with what others think. They take their way of thinking and just assume those that don't think that way are socialists or some other classification like bleeding heart liberal blah, blah, blah. I did not say adjust your budget unless it is your personal budget then go for it. I believe the point I was making is that we should prioritize government budgets. Believe it or not, and you probably don't. If the democrats were in control they would balance the budget, you just wouldn't like how they do it. If the Republicans were in control they would balance it also, and I wouldn't like it.

 

Bottom line this is about values, don't make it about money, but you will. It wouldn't cost anyone an extra penny and maybe less if agreements could be made on where to cut spending and generate revenue equitably. Just because I believe everyone should have the opportunity to have affordable health care does not make me a socialist anymore than I will think you as a libetarian because you don't want government to have much say. And by the way, I do not believe the goverment should require you to have it, but you should have the option to purchase it at an affordable rate that does not deny you coverage because you have a brain tumor, can't work, but cannot get quality care. That is inexcusable for a country that has our means But then again, if that is what you call socialism, guilty. But then I will hear that the 400lb. obese 27 year old mom with four kids who will not work and help herself gets it to. Unfortunately, that is true, but we cannot deny those that truly need it because of a few not the many that take advantage.

 

The real elephant in the room is that values and beliefs have hardened so much in a judgmental fashion that many cannot even sit down and come to a reasonable agreement on how to manage this thing. And it isn't them, it's the other side. This goes both ways or several ways.

 

The real problem I had is that you inferred, in my thinking, was that if I supported ObamaCare that I couldn't do Math. Maybe you did not intend it that way, maybe you did, that is how I perceived it. I found that demeaning and elitist. The majority of people wanted this by electing Obama, Congress voted it in, now people that are not in the majority are waiting to pounce on every little problem and they are ineveitable no matter how hard we try.

 

This you cannot deny, this is the first time a President and Congress did something that gives everyone the opportunity to have affordable health care regardless of their socioeconmic status, race, gender, or preexisting position.

 

For over 40 years Presidents and their Congress have said they will do this but failed. I find this progressive, you may not, so be it. I'm thankful I live in a country where we can disagree.

 

This is the reality as I see it. I don't think I am alone.

 

A few points because I'm laughing as I post this because you really just typed that.

 

1. You can't say prioritize the budget then in turn increase the budget. Right there your point is flawed . If we were talking about a budget neutral law that didn't pull more money from millions of people then just maybe you would have a point. Maybe. What you are saying is you want to prioritize indivuals money for your own ideology . Which is not a free market. Again its socialism . This isn't a card . This isn't hyperbole its merly fact.

 

2. If democrats were in control they would balance the budget? Again I live in the world of fact where the current Democrat president has added more to the debt than any president in our countries history .

 

3. I'm going to make it about money ? Well yes I am because this is the real world and this like money numbers and facts matter . This isn't utopia or make believe land where intentions and feelings equal real results . In the real world its about money and result of said money and its efficiency in use. If you are telling me to measure a law by its intentions well I'm going to laugh and say grow up and join the real world .

 

4. No I exactly meant if you think obamacare is a good law or success you don't like math. Take it how you want . Like Rasheed Wallace said "ball don't lie" or in this case the numbers .

 

5. I can deny and with facts on my side say this law did nothing to make healthcare more affordable for a majority of Americans. This law did make healthcare available with a government subsidy to a very small minority. But a much larger majority already had healthcare and this law either made their plans more expensive , made them leave their plans or force people into a plan they didn't want .

 

6. The only fact is because of this law more Americans will have more out of pocket expense this year compared to last. Due to either increased health care cost , a more expensive plan or a penalty for not purchasing a product they didn't want .

 

7. I don't buy the Obama was elected so the law is good argument. Obama hit all time low approval rating of 42% in the NBC poll today. Again I said NBC poll. For the very reason of Obama not only lied to American people on how this law would affect them . But it was a complete failure on the implemention of his signature law.

 

 

8. Drops the mic

You are killing me man, but that's ok. You are like a few of my golf buddies. We go round and round all the time. Usually play bad golf, but have fun. Then we go pop a few. We ain't gonna agree. Just the way it is.

The bottom line is that this is a start. There has been decades of debate about doing something, and something has been put in place. Whether it stays the same or changes over the to address issues, it is a plan in place. If anyone on the other side of the aisle has an actual plan to address the issue of health care access and costs, lay it out. Right now the only alternative presented has been to repeal ACA in its entirety. I don't believe that's what Americans want. If it were, Mitt Romney would have won the last election. Are there the uninformed who thought ACA would be free? Yes. Why is this a surprise? There are the uninformed on the other side of the aisle who think the ACA is only going to help freeloaders.

 

There are improvements that will have to be made, starting with the sign up process debacle. But the issue of access to affordable health insurance and care is a real one for a significant number of Americans who work for low wages and/or for employers who don't offer coverage. Bring an actual plan to the table to address the issues, not just a "repeal Obamacare" plan.

The bottom line is that this is a start. There has been decades of debate about doing something, and something has been put in place. Whether it stays the same or changes over the to address issues, it is a plan in place. If anyone on the other side of the aisle has an actual plan to address the issue of health care access and costs, lay it out. Right now the only alternative presented has been to repeal ACA in its entirety. I don't believe that's what Americans want. If it were, Mitt Romney would have won the last election. Are there the uninformed who thought ACA would be free? Yes. Why is this a surprise? There are the uninformed on the other side of the aisle who think the ACA is only going to help freeloaders.

 

There are improvements that will have to be made, starting with the sign up process debacle. But the issue of access to affordable health insurance and care is a real one for a significant number of Americans who work for low wages and/or for employers who don't offer coverage. Bring an actual plan to the table to address the issues, not just a "repeal Obamacare" plan.

 

No plans are allowed, The Dems, especially Pelosi and Reid wont accept or even look at other plans to address the issue brought up by the Reps. Its their way or no way.

The bottom line is that this is a start. There has been decades of debate about doing something, and something has been put in place. Whether it stays the same or changes over the to address issues, it is a plan in place. If anyone on the other side of the aisle has an actual plan to address the issue of health care access and costs, lay it out. Right now the only alternative presented has been to repeal ACA in its entirety. I don't believe that's what Americans want. If it were, Mitt Romney would have won the last election. Are there the uninformed who thought ACA would be free? Yes. Why is this a surprise? There are the uninformed on the other side of the aisle who think the ACA is only going to help freeloaders.

 

There are improvements that will have to be made, starting with the sign up process debacle. But the issue of access to affordable health insurance and care is a real one for a significant number of Americans who work for low wages and/or for employers who don't offer coverage. Bring an actual plan to the table to address the issues, not just a "repeal Obamacare" plan.

 

 

You are 100% correct in that statment.

 

 

This is a start - to a single payer system and a full on march toward socialism......or this is a start for the American people to wake up and call a duck a duck and purge itself of liberals/progressives that have no clue to run a business/country to anywhere but the ground.

 

 

 

I'm betting on socialism though, I have lost faith in the majority of "Americans".

From Bengal maniac : I knew the socialism card was going to come out because that is all people can think to play when they do not understand or agree with what others think.

 

NO BM -- We understand exactly whats going on . Your accidental ( hopefully) arrogance is noted . It's not some card anyone plays , it's America no longer being able to pay its 17 trillion debt payment. But as long our intentions are good all is well in liberal looney land . I did get a serious chuckle when I read the Dems would balance the budget ... LOL . 17 trillion my friend .. 17 trillion.

It is socialism . You just don't like your ideas falling into the category it belongs .

It is socialism.

 

The government has taken away freedom to choose an insurance company or plan and only allow for youto pick a plan from the government controlled insurance industry.

Sources: White House told insurance execs to keep quiet on Obamacare - CNN.com

Cadillac Plan = RockMom's = Big business exclusion until next year. Small business and healthy young individuals feel the pain this year. I want changes. I want coverage available to everyone. I want catastrophic coverage. I want insurance across state lines and people able to group together for better rates. I want preventative care, It is cheaper. I do not want my country going broke trying to be everything to everyone. This is about insurance , not health care.

Edited November 1, 201312 yr by Jaysie
can't spell

Cadillac Plan = RockMom's = Big business exclusion until next year. Small business and healthy young individuals feel the pain this year. I want changes. I want coverage available to everyone. I want catastrophic coverage. I want insurance across state lines and people able to group together for better rates. I want preventative care, It is cheaper. I do not want my country going broke trying to be everything to everyone. This is about insurance , not health care.

 

Can you imagine the backlash by employees toward the business itself if they had not (illegally) delayed the company-mandate. Especially, the union based companies. Unions right now are not exempt from the Cadillac plan. And they know how to get people organized to work against business if they are not happy. But even non-union companies would (will) face backlash.

I did some research on the "Cadillac Plan" tax and this is what I found.

 

For fully insured or self funded employer plans there will be a 40% excise tax paid by the issuer for any $ amount over an annual premium cost of $10,200 for individuals and $27,500 for a family plan. Meaning if the cost is $11,200 for an individual plan the tax will be 40% of $1000. The term cadillac plan seems to have nothing to really do with coverage and everything to do with cost. So a high risk older person that has really high premiums will be hit with this tax.

The bottom line is that this is a start.

 

This is a start to you and Bengal and Obama reaching into my pocket and taking my money. I am mad about it. A lot of people are mad about it. The Dems better be worried that this will trump the ineptitude of Republicans in the next election and get a lot of people to vote you people out now that they are slammed in the face with the truth and not a bunch of pie in the sky LIES.

In the olden days this kind of thing ended violently.

This is a start to you and Bengal and Obama reaching into my pocket and taking my money. I am mad about it. A lot of people are mad about it. The Dems better be worried that this will trump the ineptitude of Republicans in the next election and get a lot of people to vote you people out now that they are slammed in the face with the truth and not a bunch of pie in the sky LIES.

 

The DEMS aint worried, they will have all the illegals, anti christian, and lazy sorry bums looking for free handouts to vote for them

Heard on radio that the 'identity verification' goes against the major credit databases. But that 40-60% of the people who are 27 to 34 (those that will pay for this) are not in that database. It then goes to an ill-defined 'manual method' of ID verification.

 

This sounds like a major flaw (OK, just one of...).