I know I am coming into this conversation late and I haven't read all of the posts(some have too much emotion). I think this issue comes down to mathematics. If "private" schools in general had a significant advantage then schools like Holy Cross (Covington) would or soon should be dominating. That hasn't happened and it doesn't appear that it is. Covington Catholic is another example. They should be able to whip the tar out of Highlands each year. They don't.

 

This is just a numbers issue that could be fixed (while not easy) with one more class (5A) and place those schools with the true mathematical advantage in that class. This mathematical advantage wouldn't only be based totally on enrollment but also on drawing area. Also, if a school is able to draw out of their district (private included) then they need to "play up" to the next class or one that more closely resembles their "catchment area". Also, any school that would like to elect to "play up" (like Highlands wanted to when the 2A issue was raised) would be required to "play all the way up" to Class 5A.

 

This has the potential to keep peace and it also would generate more revenue (1 more set of playoffs and state championship game). While it could end up close to the "at large & Louisville" set up from the past, it seems to me that it's the most reasonable alternative. To have rules where students are not able to participate is unbelievably short sighted and potentially further damages high school sports. Most would agree that if we could get more children into sports, we would for the betterment of society.

 

There are plenty of smart people, that given the issues, could develop a system that addresses this sort of thing and ensure the rights of parents and students to choose and still be eligible for athletics at the same time.

 

That might be the best idea yet. I don't think many private schools would have a problem jumping a class.

While the private schools may not mind jumping a class, I would think that the 2A schools would complain when NCC, LCA, etc. jump up to 2A. Also, that does not solve the issue of Trinity and St. X. They can't jump a class. And that is what a lot of this debate is about. Two teams dominating the state in football.

 

What I wonder is, if Trinity and St. X would not have been put on opposite sides of the state, would this have come to a head now or would it have taken a couple of more years? Just a thought.

While the private schools may not mind jumping a class, I would think that the 2A schools would complain when NCC, LCA, etc. jump up to 2A. Also, that does not solve the issue of Trinity and St. X. They can't jump a class. And that is what a lot of this debate is about. Two teams dominating the state in football.

 

What I wonder is, if Trinity and St. X would not have been put on opposite sides of the state, would this have come to a head now or would it have taken a couple of more years? Just a thought.

 

I'd like to think it was that simple, but it's not. I honestly don't think the majority voted to separate because Trinity and X dominate 4A football, swimming and golf. It would be a much easier solution, IMO.

I'd like to think it was that simple, but it's not. I honestly don't think the majority voted to separate because Trinity and X dominate 4A football, swimming and golf. It would be a much easier solution, IMO.

:thumb:

Here is a new item that seems under the radar screen:

 

From Courier-Journal 2/1 article:

 

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060201/SPORTS05/602010471

 

 

 

So you better be in the right school by 6th grade and you better have all the monies you are going to need because you can not rely on other family members.

 

Wouldn't this require KHSAA audit every family in private schools?

 

 

I have posited this question previously but have not yet received an answer.

What if every student at a Catholic school received 100% financial aid and paid $0? Then the playing field would be level. The Catholic child would pay the same ($0) as the public child. Why does financial aid to privates matter? At most, it evens things out and removes a huge disadvantage for the private school student. What if only Catholic athletes, of all Catholic students, received 100% tuition? The Catholic athlete would pay the same ($0) as the public athlete! Where is there any advantage to tuition aid for a Catholic student?

I have posited this question previously but have not yet received an answer.

What if every student at a Catholic school received 100% financial aid and paid $0? Then the playing field would be level. The Catholic child would pay the same ($0) as the public child. Why does financial aid to privates matter? At most, it evens things out and removes a huge disadvantage for the private school student. What if only Catholic athletes, of all Catholic students, received 100% tuition? The Catholic athlete would pay the same ($0) as the public athlete! Where is there any advantage to tuition aid for a Catholic student?

There is not enough money to go around. Catholic schools get zero money from the state for anything. From teachers salary (which is almost always lower at a Catholic School than public school) to light bills. The school (or Diocese) has to come up with the money themselves. Fundraising and tuition are where the money comes from. Of course, some of the money raised goes into a fund for financial aid, but if everyone got financial aid, many other things the school could do would go by the wayside.

I don't know if I am on topic or not, but here are some thoughts on the Public/Private discussion a friend and I had discussed a day or two ago.

 

I Just don't get why the private schools even want to be part of the rest of the state. wouldn't they want to jump at the chance to make their own leagues built on sportsmanship, morality and superior work ethic?

 

Private school supporters get so mad and insulted that we the public schools want to become seperate from them, hello......... you all have chose not to be part of our school systems, you have payed good money to attend another school system that is seperate from the rest of us.... Why is it okay to be a part of our sports? I believe that public schools have the right to be seperate just like you all have the right to choose where you can go to school. We also have the right or should have the right to vote you out of our championships or impose rules upon you and your schools if we so choose through a vote of KHSAA membership.

it is America and Majority rules.

 

Not always true

 

Some examples

 

Presidential election of 2000

 

Civil rights legislation (a majority of Americans opposed many of them)

 

The Senates filibuster (specifically to protect the interests of the minority party)

 

Now go ahead and flame me for equating high school athletics with these examples even though I am doing no such thing.

I don't know if I am on topic or not, but here are some thoughts on the Public/Private discussion a friend and I had discussed a day or two ago.

 

I Just don't get why the private schools even want to be part of the rest of the state. wouldn't they want to jump at the chance to make their own leagues built on sportsmanship, morality and superior work ethic?

 

Private school supporters get so mad and insulted that we the public schools want to become seperate from them, hello......... you all have chose not to be part of our school systems, you have payed good money to attend another school system that is seperate from the rest of us.... Why is it okay to be a part of our sports? I believe that public schools have the right to be seperate just like you all have the right to choose where you can go to school. We also have the right or should have the right to vote you out of our championships or impose rules upon you and your schools if we so choose through a vote of KHSAA membership.

 

If you want your school to leave the KHSAA, what is stopping you? If you are so upset with having private schools a part of the KHSAA, why are you still participating? Go ahead and leave. :walk:

So no answers for why, privates want to be included with the publics so badly?

The KHSAA is part of the state board of education which in turn is supported by tax dollars that even private school patrons pay so they have payed for the "right" to be part of the system.

 

You have any answers for the questions that were put to you or are you going to hide behind majority rules?

I don't know if I am on topic or not, but here are some thoughts on the Public/Private discussion a friend and I had discussed a day or two ago.

 

I Just don't get why the private schools even want to be part of the rest of the state. wouldn't they want to jump at the chance to make their own leagues built on sportsmanship, morality and superior work ethic?

 

Private school supporters get so mad and insulted that we the public schools want to become seperate from them, hello......... you all have chose not to be part of our school systems, you have payed good money to attend another school system that is seperate from the rest of us.... Why is it okay to be a part of our sports? I believe that public schools have the right to be seperate just like you all have the right to choose where you can go to school. We also have the right or should have the right to vote you out of our championships or impose rules upon you and your schools if we so choose through a vote of KHSAA membership.

Your sports ? It's Kentucky's Sports!!! The High School kids' sports not the adults .

So no answers for why, privates want to be included with the publics so badly?

 

 

First, I don't think it's a matter of "so badly". It's a matter of several elements of practicality.

 

1) Scheduling: A school not a member of it's own state's athletic association cannot play schools members of that state's athletic association, or other states' associations. So Trinity, in football for example, would not be able to schedule or play any of the teams in Kentucky, nor would they be able to play schools like MBA, Elder, etc.

 

2) Financial: Evidently not realized by a large percentage of people, private schools do not have unlimited resources for travel for games.

 

3) Academic: Even if the money were to somehow become available, travelling the distance it would take to fill a schedule with games against teams who were not members of their state associations would detract from classroom time. To be a bit sarcastic here, it's not all about sports in private schools, and this issue would not be accpetable whatsoever.

 

4) Miscellaneous: There seems to be different issues with different schools. For instance, the football issue seems to be primarily centered on 4A football, and Trinity and St. X. I know a little bit about the basketball situation, and that seems to center mostly on smaller schools, and in the girls' sports. So, the issue is this: the smaller schools would be set-back in a huge way if all private schools were to leave the KHSAA. While even Trinity, X, Sacred Heart, Lex Cath would feel a prohibitive pinch to travel that extensively for competition, the smaller schools would simply not be able to begin that process immediately.

 

 

Those are some of the reasons, as I see them. I'm sure that others can provide better detail, or correct me where I may have erred!

First, I don't think it's a matter of "so badly". It's a matter of several elements of practicality.

 

1) Scheduling: A school not a member of it's own state's athletic association cannot play schools members of that state's athletic association, or other states' associations. So Trinity, in football for example, would not be able to schedule or play any of the teams in Kentucky, nor would they be able to play schools like MBA, Elder, etc.

 

2) Financial: Evidently not realized by a large percentage of people, private schools do not have unlimited resources for travel for games.

 

3) Academic: Even if the money were to somehow become available, travelling the distance it would take to fill a schedule with games against teams who were not members of their state associations would detract from classroom time. To be a bit sarcastic here, it's not all about sports in private schools, and this issue would not be accpetable whatsoever.

 

4) Miscellaneous: There seems to be different issues with different schools. For instance, the football issue seems to be primarily centered on 4A football, and Trinity and St. X. I know a little bit about the basketball situation, and that seems to center mostly on smaller schools, and in the girls' sports. So, the issue is this: the smaller schools would be set-back in a huge way if all private schools were to leave the KHSAA. While even Trinity, X, Sacred Heart, Lex Cath would feel a prohibitive pinch to travel that extensively for competition, the smaller schools would simply not be able to begin that process immediately.

 

 

Those are some of the reasons, as I see them. I'm sure that others can provide better detail, or correct me where I may have erred!

 

Are you sure about the private schools not being able to schedule member schools? I thought the proposal was to allow private schools to compete during regular season and to not allow playoff and championship competition??

Are you sure about the private schools not being able to schedule member schools? I thought the proposal was to allow private schools to compete during regular season and to not allow playoff and championship competition??

The proposal does not affect regular season but setups up dual or more (how many would there be in football? 4 or 5?) playoff systems. No one is prohibited from playoff or championship competition.