Are you sure about the private schools not being able to schedule member schools? I thought the proposal was to allow private schools to compete during regular season and to not allow playoff and championship competition??

 

 

I was addressing the question about why Privates would want to remain members of the KHSAA. Sorry about the confusion. Oldonetechnique had asked why we wanted to be included with the publics so badly. That was a tangent from a previous post he posted....

 

 

Originally Posted by oldonetechnique

I don't know if I am on topic or not, but here are some thoughts on the Public/Private discussion a friend and I had discussed a day or two ago.

 

I Just don't get why the private schools even want to be part of the rest of the state. wouldn't they want to jump at the chance to make their own leagues built on sportsmanship, morality and superior work ethic?

 

Private school supporters get so mad and insulted that we the public schools want to become seperate from them, hello......... you all have chose not to be part of our school systems, you have payed good money to attend another school system that is seperate from the rest of us.... Why is it okay to be a part of our sports? I believe that public schools have the right to be seperate just like you all have the right to choose where you can go to school. We also have the right or should have the right to vote you out of our championships or impose rules upon you and your schools if we so choose through a vote of KHSAA membership.

 

As to the current proposal 20, it is structured to include private schools in regular season play, with the split play to occur beginning with playoffs.

The proposal does not affect regular season but setups up dual or more (how many would there be in football? 4 or 5?) playoff systems. No one is prohibited from playoff or championship competition.

 

I haven't really been keeping up with this whole deal, I guess prop 20 was shot down so I guess the current proposal is the feeder deal?

I was addressing the question about why Privates would want to remain members of the KHSAA. Sorry about the confusion. Oldonetechnique had asked why we wanted to be included with the publics so badly. That was a tangent from a previous post he posted....

 

 

 

 

As to the current proposal 20, it is structured to include private schools in regular season play, with the split play to occur beginning with playoffs.

 

Ok then, then travel is your main argument for wanting to keep privates in the KHSAA. If privates are still allowed to compete during regular season, then that throws out the travel argument.

Ok then, then travel is your main argument for wanting to keep privates in the KHSAA. If privates are still allowed to compete during regular season, then that throws out the travel argument.

Not to speak for RM, because she certainly does not need me to, but if you are addressing keeping private schools in post season tournament, then I would say no. That is not the main position of the private school supporters.

 

For good reason, they feel that their children should be allowed to compete in the KHSAA state tournaments with everyone else and the majority have not broken any of the present KHSAA rules. In addition, alot of their success is through hard work and support of their programs. That cannot be argued against.

 

The point of contention for supporters of publics is that the system is setup to favor private schools.

Not to speak for RM, because she certainly does not need me to, but if you are addressing keeping private schools in post season tournament, then I would say no. That is not the main position of the private school supporters.

 

For good reason, they feel that their children should be allowed to compete in the KHSAA state tournaments with everyone else and the majority have not broken any of the present KHSAA rules. In addition, alot of their success is through hard work and support of their programs. That cannot be argued against.

 

The point of contention for supporters of publics is that the system is setup to favor private schools.

 

Agreed, well put. I take the stance that we should all play under the same rules, period. Seems simple enough but what do I know?

I don't know if I am on topic or not, but here are some thoughts on the Public/Private discussion a friend and I had discussed a day or two ago.

 

I Just don't get why the private schools even want to be part of the rest of the state. wouldn't they want to jump at the chance to make their own leagues built on sportsmanship, morality and superior work ethic?

 

Private school supporters get so mad and insulted that we the public schools want to become seperate from them, hello......... you all have chose not to be part of our school systems, you have payed good money to attend another school system that is seperate from the rest of us.... Why is it okay to be a part of our sports? I believe that public schools have the right to be seperate just like you all have the right to choose where you can go to school. We also have the right or should have the right to vote you out of our championships or impose rules upon you and your schools if we so choose through a vote of KHSAA membership.

 

Your last sentence is totally, and I mean totally wrong. The KHSAA does not belong to the public schools or even the members of the KHSAA. It belongs to the Kentucky Department of EducationThe KHSAA is the agent of the Kentucky Department of Education and is in effect licensed by the State to operate high school sports in Kentucky. While private schools do not have to comply with every rule that public schools do, they are still governed to a great extent by the Kentucky Dept of Education. I guess it is possible that the Kentucky Department of Education could impose separate championships, but that is the Department's call; not the public schools' call. And based on the public comments of some members of the State Board of Education, I think it should be pretty clear that the State is not in favor of separate championships regardless of what the delegates may have voted. Contrary to what a lot of principals, coaches and superintendents at the public schools think, the KHSAA is not "their" association. It belongs to the Kentucky Dept of Education and the sooner they realize that fact, the sooner they will come to reality on the private vs public issue and a whole lot of other issues. Does the Kentucky Department of Education encourage the schools (all schools) to provide input on how the KHSAA is operated? Of course. That is the purpose of allowing the delegates to vote. But no where in the KHSAA's Constitution or By Laws does it state that the vote of the delegates is controlling or binding. Only the Kentucky Department of Education has final say on what decisions are made relating to who can belong and who can't belong to the KHSAA and what changes are made to the KHSAA's Constitution, By Laws and rules. Finally and also not to be forgotten is the fact that most parents who send their kids to private schools are tax payers to the State of Kentucky. While they may not avail themselves of the public school opportunity, they are still paying the taxes that support the public schools, the State of Kentucky and the state sponsored athletic championships. I see a strong legal argument to be made that as taxpayers, the parents have a right to have their kids participate in the state sponsored championships. I know that participation in sports is generally considered a privilage and not a right, but the more extreme the restrictions become on athletic competition, the more draconian the rules against partipation in the state sponsored competition become, and the less grounded in good logic the rules preventing competition in state sponsored competition become, the more likely that the courts are going to rule that participation in sports is a right vs a privilege and the public schools would be smart to keep that in mind. Comprende?

Agreed, well put. I take the stance that we should all play under the same rules, period. Seems simple enough but what do I know?

I think the well worn out contention is that those rules are favoring the privates.

Ok then, then travel is your main argument for wanting to keep privates in the KHSAA. If privates are still allowed to compete during regular season, then that throws out the travel argument.

 

 

LBBC answered well for me, but I'd just like to interject a little of my personal feelings here, restating my first thought when I heard this proposal.

 

What is "fair" about "allowing" the private schools to play the public schools in the regular season, but banning them from doing so in the post season? This allows the public schools to reap some very lucrative gates during the regular season, to arguably play the best competition in the state, yet not injure their W-L records for the playoffs (from a 4A football standpoint). It puts smaller private schools in the position of playing against schools that are several times larger than they for private school championships...which creates a second "uneven" playing field for the private schools in the state. It may level the playing field for the public schools, but I don't think it will, given the disparity in several areas of public schools: rural vs. urban, closed district vs. open enrollment...

Maybe I am missing something here, but what rules favor the privates over independent or public schools that have open enrollment?

 

I understand the limitation of the public schools without open enrollment to accept students outside the school district. Does anyone know what percentage of the public schools have open enrollment?

Agreed, well put. I take the stance that we should all play under the same rules, period. Seems simple enough but what do I know?

 

I'm going to ask this question once again. Can you show me just ONE KHSAA rule that public schools are expected to abide by that private schools are not?

I'm going to ask this question once again. Can you show me just ONE KHSAA rule that public schools are expected to abide by that private schools are not?

 

Oh, I am sorry, I worded that wrong, everybody abides by the same rules, just some schools, not just privates, create situations that bends the rules. Some schools are put into areas that aren't even in the community they serve, you look around in that community and you will find very few residents that have kids that actually go to that school.

Oh, I am sorry, I worded that wrong, everybody abides by the same rules, just some schools, not just privates, create situations that bends the rules.

Then why all the venom towards private schools if you admit that public schools "BEND" the rules as well?

Then why all the venom towards private schools if you admit that public schools "BEND" the rules as well?

 

Well, I am sure I am going to get the "What about academics?" argument here. I am against any school system that sets itself up for some sort of domination in athletics or even academics, yes, you can even have academic domination, which can be a bad thing as well cause you can take away from other schools in that situation as well. The vote for open enrollment came up a few years back in McCracken County and they voted it down and their reasoning was that they didn't want to take away from their communities and I have always felt that schools in communities should build up what they have.

So schools shouldn't strive to be the best they can be in academics or athletics, they should all just mire thenselves in being average and not try to push the envelope?

Well, I am sure I am going to get the "What about academics?" argument here. I am against any school system that sets itself up for some sort of domination in athletics or even academics, yes, you can even have academic domination, which can be a bad thing as well cause you can take away from other schools in that situation as well. The vote for open enrollment came up a few years back in McCracken County and they voted it down and their reasoning was that they didn't want to take away from their communities and I have always felt that schools in communities should build up what they have.

 

 

Yet, in Louisville, the JCPS has become nationally recognized for their system.

 

The thing is, there is one thing that private schools, specifically religiously affiliated schools, can offer that no public school can offer. The biggest, of course, is a religious focus in education.

 

A sense of "Community" is not restricted to the scenario that children in a certain area attend a certain school. At Trinity, there's a widely disparate range of residential occupation. The sense of "Community" comes from a group of people who are all in agreement of, and working toward, excellence for their institution.

 

The school is not the bodies of it's students, it's the spirit of their families.