June 18, 201313 yr All I' saying is at the end of the day which line is better? 5 championships 1 League MVP 2 Finals MVP's 4 Championships 5-6+ League MVP's 3-4 Finals MVP's ? Without looking and knowing the argument I would go with player 2 anyday of the week. Anyone would. But like you said Kobe fans are going to be Kobe homers, Lebron fans are going to be Lebron homers. I totally understand it, been dealing with it for almost a decade now. Easily LeBron when you stack them side-by-side. And I am more of a Kobe guy. To me my big issue is that if that are LeBron's final totals that will be a big disappointment given how talented he is. I have never felt he has played to his capabilities, nor does he have any desire to. Those numbers will only reflect that LBJ came up grossly short when it really mattered and that counts a lot in my book. In all honesty, I believe LeBron could average 38, 7, and 7 a night and be the league's best defender. That is how good I think he could be and really at the crux of my frustration with him.
June 18, 201313 yr Has anyone ever questioned if LeBron is too talented for his own good? Like in Cleveland, his team now will often get lost in just watching him or waiting for him to make a play. Every player on the roster is built to play off his talents so when he is not flowing, the team is not flowing. It took him nearly a decade to figure out he was more valuable inside the arc so he is culpable as well. I think its a mixture of coaching and players mentality. Instead of banking on Lebron or Wade to do something every night they need to start trying to be the man themselves (looking at you Bosh Spice). Look at guys like Danny Green and Gary Neal, fully capitalizing on their opportunity. Even on a team full of established winners, they are still going out every night and playing like their jobs on the line. This was never the case in Cleveland or Miami for whatever reason. Guys have big games every now and then, but none of them try to do anything themselves. It's like everyone is looking for Lebron to take over and win it all by himself, with perhaps a little help from Wade. If it doesn't happen its a loss. I put it on the coaches for not getting the other guys more competetive, and the players themselves for not trying to step up and be a tag team partner instead of just a ring girl.
June 18, 201313 yr Easily LeBron when you stack them side-by-side. And I am more of a Kobe guy. To me my big issue is that if that are LeBron's final totals that will be a big disappointment given how talented he is. I have never felt he has played to his capabilities, nor does he have any desire to. Those numbers will only reflect that LBJ came up grossly short when it really mattered and that counts a lot in my book. In all honesty, I believe LeBron could average 38, 7, and 7 a night and be the league's best defender. That is how good I think he could be and really at the crux of my frustration with him. And that's where a lot of people are with him. But at the end of the day though is that really fair to him? Even though his talents suggest he should have won more, or done things a little bit differently. BUT, is it fair to knock him because his potential is so high instead of applauding the accolades he has achieved? More than any player in the history of sports, Lebron frustrates more by people because no matter what people will always want more.
June 18, 201313 yr And IMHO, LeBron needs 4 more rings before anybody should even begin saying he's better than either of those two. So Bill Russell is the best basketball player of all-time? If your answer is no then your statement about LeBron is hypocritical. He HAS to win five rings before be can be better than Kobe or Jordan? HAS to? Four won't be enough? Why wouldn't three with 3 finals MVPs be better or equal to Kobe? That's more Finals MVPs that Bryant? Comparing guys by setting an arbitrary number of points or titles is ridiculous. We do it because its always been done. It made little sense when we did it with Jordan, little sense when we do it now. What if the Lakers win the next 2 titles? Is Kobe better than Jordan? I'd still say no way.
June 18, 201313 yr All I' saying is at the end of the day which line is better? 5 championships 1 League MVP 2 Finals MVP's 4 Championships 5-6+ League MVP's 3-4 Finals MVP's ? Without looking and knowing the argument I would go with player 2 anyday of the week. Anyone would. But like you said Kobe fans are going to be Kobe homers, Lebron fans are going to be Lebron homers. I totally understand it, been dealing with it for almost a decade now. If that is Kobe and LeBron's final tally only a LeBron hater would take Kobe's career over his.
June 18, 201313 yr If that is Kobe and LeBron's final tally only a LeBron hater would take Kobe's career over his. We'll talk if/when LeBron get's to 4...
June 18, 201313 yr So Bill Russell is the best basketball player of all-time? If your answer is no then your statement about LeBron is hypocritical. He HAS to win five rings before be can be better than Kobe or Jordan? HAS to? Four won't be enough? Why wouldn't three with 3 finals MVPs be better or equal to Kobe? That's more Finals MVPs that Bryant? Comparing guys by setting an arbitrary number of points or titles is ridiculous. We do it because its always been done. It made little sense when we did it with Jordan, little sense when we do it now. What if the Lakers win the next 2 titles? Is Kobe better than Jordan? I'd still say no way. Is LeBron, right now, better than Kobe or MJ in your eyes? If not, why isn't he?
June 18, 201313 yr We'll talk if/when LeBron get's to 4... So it has to be four now? What number would truly satisfy you?
June 18, 201313 yr So it has to be four now? What number would truly satisfy you? I just used four because dolamite cited that number in the comparison...
June 18, 201313 yr Is LeBron, right now, better than Kobe or MJ in your eyes? If not, why isn't he? When LeBron is at his best I think his only equal is Jordan. He hasn't put it together consistently yet to say he's had a better career than Kobe, let alone Jordan. But the LeBron from this season is better than Kobe ever was IMO. If you have to win an entire series maybe you take Kobe, but other than mid-range scoring LeBron is better at every aspect of the game than Kobe ever was. 3 point shooting is debatable. Nothing else really is, or is even really close. Granted they don't play the same position.
June 18, 201313 yr Kobe and MJ's careers are complete. At this stage of Kobe's career it could have been argued that he couldn't win a championship as a lead guy. LeBron's legacy will be written over the next 6 or 7 years. He will add or subtract from it for the remainder of the series.
June 18, 201313 yr When LeBron is at his best I think his only equal is Jordan. He hasn't put it together consistently yet to say he's had a better career than Kobe, let alone Jordan. But the LeBron from this season is better than Kobe ever was IMO. If you have to win an entire series maybe you take Kobe, but other than mid-range scoring LeBron is better at every aspect of the game than Kobe ever was. 3 point shooting is debatable. Nothing else really is, or is even really close. Granted they don't play the same position. I think LeBron, athletically speaking, is like nothing we've ever seen. Very few guys that size can do what he does. That being said, there's just no way I take LeBron over Jordan or Kobe in their primes... He does not have that killer instinct that we've talked about on here before. Or if he does, it isn't present like it was is/was in MJ and Kobe. Jordan was an assassin. Kobe plays/played the same way.
June 18, 201313 yr I think LeBron, athletically speaking, is like nothing we've ever seen. Very few guys that size can do what he does. That being said, there's just no way I take LeBron over Jordan or Kobe in their primes... He does not have that killer instinct that we've talked about on here before. Or if he does, it isn't present like it was is/was in MJ and Kobe. Jordan was an assassin. Kobe plays/played the same way. When Kobe was LeBron's was he an assassin or a moody gunner that only waged to get his? LeBron at 28 is so much better than the Kobe at 28 it isn't funny IMO. Still think you are measuring one man's career against one man who is only half way through. The two years that should be compared are the two Kobe averaged a ton of points in. That was how old he was. That Kobe scored a ton, but his teams lost a lot and he was inefficient. LeBron is efficient but sometimes inconsistent. But if the 28 year old LeBron and the 28 year old Kobe were both free agents I'd guess the majority of the teams in the league would prefer LBJ. All I'm saying is don't call a man's legacy finished until he leaves his prime.
June 18, 201313 yr Was the "is bill Russell the greatest ever" question ever answered? This bantering is a pleasant way to pass my time on the John. So deuce would you mind answering cats question? Thank you sir in advance.
June 19, 201313 yr Was the "is bill Russell the greatest ever" question ever answered? This bantering is a pleasant way to pass my time on the John. So deuce would you mind answering cats question? Thank you sir in advance. I never saw him play, nor have watched any film on him. 11 rings is a ton, so he is obviously the best when it comes to rings. I can't comment on his game, like I said, I've never watched any significant amount of game tape on him.
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