How many of you have ever heard a fan yell "He's reaching in"? Show me "reaching in" in a rule book..........

Wouldn't "reaching in" be akin to hand-checking? I always thought it was OK if no contact was made. The one that gets me is how a "jump stop" is not considered travelling????

The one that gets me is how a "jump stop" is not considered travelling????

 

Its not traveling if done correctly.

Well, if the ball is still in his hands when a pivot is lifted completely up then its a walk. Here's an intesting note. It is IMPOSSIBLE to be traveling while maintaing a dribble. You can jump and run and scoot as long as you maintain dribble.

 

That's not a walk. The if the player releases the ball for a try or a pass before the pivot foot returns it's legal.

There is a misconception that it is a T if a defender slaps the backboard while trying to block a shot.

YES, that is another one people ALWAYS yell about.

 

I just remembered another....When a shot hits the rim and then hits a couple of times on the top of the backboard and everyone yells that it is out of play or over the backboard.

Wouldn't "reaching in" be akin to hand-checking? I always thought it was OK if no contact was made. The one that gets me is how a "jump stop" is not considered travelling????

I think the key phrase in all of these is when the defender "gains an advantage" by reaching or hand-checking or any other contact.

not trying to start an arguement, but frances you can't honestly believe refs don't have make up calls. I apologize a head of time if you are part of the 2 percent of perfect refs but i refs are human and they do make mistakes and allot of them realize it and do do make up calls.

First, I do not officiate. I did at one time (about three lifetimes ago), but I do not any longer.

 

Do makeup calls happen? Sure. But they are almost always made by very young, inexperienced officials. In my opinion, uninformed fans that have never officiated will see the odd "makeup" call by a young official, and they then project that onto everyone that wears stripes and blows a whistle.

 

Without a doubt, during the ebb and flow of any given game, calls will be missed. When, on that rare occassion, a call is missed on one end of the floor, and the same official misses a call on the other end of the floor on the subsequent possession, you will immediately hear the fans that are ignorant of what officiating really is, begin the cries of "Makeup" call.

 

99% of officials will tell you that it's tough enough to get calls right in the first place. They aren't about to intentionally blow one in an effort to balance out a prior mistake. Sadly, far too many fans don't believe this - for one excellent reason - they've never called a game of anything in their lives, and they have NO IDEA what they are talking about. They have never been in that position, and consequently, they are talking out of their backsides.

 

For what it's worth - there are no "perfect refs" (not even two percent). On the other hand, the percentage of refs that intentionally miss calls is nowhere near 98% either.

 

 

 

Frances

I guess we just disagree on the level of quality of high school officials.

 

Like you, over the years, I've seen some butchers out there on the hardwood. When I go to a game, I don't go to watch bad officials - I go to watch a game. If, over the course of that game, I see five or six calls that I don't agree with, I consider that a very well officiated game.

 

The reason that I say this is, I'm sitting about 80 feet from the floor, watching the game from the sideline angle, with a bias toward one team. The guy with the whistle in his mouth is usually about 10 to 15 feet from the play, has (usually) a great angle, has read (and understands) the rule book, has attended clinics to explain exactly how the rule is to be applied, has (on average) something over 5 years experience, couldn't care less which team wins (contrary to what the people in the stands believe), and is doing everything he can to keep the game clean.

 

You tell me - who is more likely to get the call right - me, or the ref?

 

Throwing more money at the situation won't change things (although, I'm sure that the guys that ref wouldn't mind a fatter paycheck). Not many people like being called names on a nightly basis, by people that are so completely unprepared to judge their work.

 

This thread is an excellent example of just how ignorant most people are of the rules, and how they are applied. The people that have posted on this thread are (for the most part) very knowledgable of the rules, and even here, we are seeing the odd misunderstanding and subsequent clarification.

 

If you had this same thread, and limited it to only the people that scream things like "makeup", "that was a charge", "hey ref - you suck", "over and back", and "walk", you would be stunned at some of the incredibly wrongheaded intepretations of what the rules are. I'll go farther than that - you would probably be laughing at the depth of ignorance you would see.

 

Frances

I guess we just disagree on the level of quality of high school officials.

 

Like you, over the years, I've seen some butchers out there on the hardwood. When I go to a game, I don't go to watch bad officials - I go to watch a game. If, over the course of that game, I see five or six calls that I don't agree with, I consider that a very well officiated game.

 

The reason that I say this is, I'm sitting about 80 feet from the floor, watching the game from the sideline angle, with a bias toward one team. The guy with the whistle in his mouth is usually about 10 to 15 feet from the play, has (usually) a great angle, has read (and understands) the rule book, has attended clinics to explain exactly how the rule is to be applied, has (on average) something over 5 years experience, couldn't care less which team wins (contrary to what the people in the stands believe), and is doing everything he can to keep the game clean.

 

You tell me - who is more likely to get the call right - me, or the ref?

 

Throwing more money at the situation won't change things (although, I'm sure that the guys that ref wouldn't mind a fatter paycheck). Not many people like being called names on a nightly basis, by people that are so completely unprepared to judge their work.

 

This thread is an excellent example of just how ignorant most people are of the rules, and how they are applied. The people that have posted on this thread are (for the most part) very knowledgable of the rules, and even here, we are seeing the odd misunderstanding and subsequent clarification.

 

If you had this same thread, and limited it to only the people that scream things like "makeup", "that was a charge", "hey ref - you suck", "over and back", and "walk", you would be stunned at some of the incredibly wrongheaded intepretations of what the rules are. I'll go farther than that - you would probably be laughing at the depth of ignorance you would see.

 

Frances

 

Well said my man!

My big problem is the people who go to games not to watch the kids play, but to yell and harrass the officials. And trust me, everywhere you go, there's that one fan, sometimes a man sometimes a lady, who is at the game to do nothing but complain about every call that goes against "their school." These people need to either get a clue about the game or find a new hobby!

If a player goes up for a layup and a player on the other team grabs the rim, is that a T. just curious

As cshs was indicating, the official has to make a subjective call on what was the intent of the player.

I guess we just disagree on the level of quality of high school officials.

 

Like you, over the years, I've seen some butchers out there on the hardwood. When I go to a game, I don't go to watch bad officials - I go to watch a game. If, over the course of that game, I see five or six calls that I don't agree with, I consider that a very well officiated game.

 

The reason that I say this is, I'm sitting about 80 feet from the floor, watching the game from the sideline angle, with a bias toward one team. The guy with the whistle in his mouth is usually about 10 to 15 feet from the play, has (usually) a great angle, has read (and understands) the rule book, has attended clinics to explain exactly how the rule is to be applied, has (on average) something over 5 years experience, couldn't care less which team wins (contrary to what the people in the stands believe), and is doing everything he can to keep the game clean.

 

You tell me - who is more likely to get the call right - me, or the ref?

 

Throwing more money at the situation won't change things (although, I'm sure that the guys that ref wouldn't mind a fatter paycheck). Not many people like being called names on a nightly basis, by people that are so completely unprepared to judge their work.

 

This thread is an excellent example of just how ignorant most people are of the rules, and how they are applied. The people that have posted on this thread are (for the most part) very knowledgable of the rules, and even here, we are seeing the odd misunderstanding and subsequent clarification.

 

If you had this same thread, and limited it to only the people that scream things like "makeup", "that was a charge", "hey ref - you suck", "over and back", and "walk", you would be stunned at some of the incredibly wrongheaded intepretations of what the rules are. I'll go farther than that - you would probably be laughing at the depth of ignorance you would see.

 

Frances

 

I agree it is an extremely difficult and thankless job, especially considering the meager wages. There are several that do an excellent job of it though. The quality of officiating in the last ten years has improved dramatically. One thing I do notice is the difference in sport to sport with the thickness of officials skin. Having said that, constant berating of officials by coaches or players is never acceptable. Although I do notice that in certain sports, some referees will allow a coach to question their authority much more often than others without dishing out a T, personal foul, or yellow card. It seems basketball officials carry on the greatest dialogue with coaches and allow coaches to give them a little grief. Much more than soccer officials who nearly any time a coach questions their authority are very quick to pull the card.

That's a great point, Gunner 11.

 

To be honest, I often find myself sitting in the stands, wishing that the officials would "T" up a coach - but not because I don't like that team.

 

I'd like to see them "T" 'em up because I hate to watch a coach "show up" an official, or try to incite his fans to do so.

 

I think most basketball officials demonstrate great patience with most coaches. No problem with a coach disagreeing with a call, but when you see a coach sprint down the sideline grabbing his head like he just witnessed a murder - I say "T him up".

 

Frances

That's a great point, Gunner 11.

 

To be honest, I often find myself sitting in the stands, wishing that the officials would "T" up a coach - but not because I don't like that team.

 

I'd like to see them "T" 'em up because I hate to watch a coach "show up" an official, or try to incite his fans to do so.

 

Frances

 

:thumb: I think that the "T" should be used more. This would calm some of this down...I coach and I do not badger refs ever. This only takes your kids off their focus and encourages them to go into excuse mode.

 

Human nature does come into play also...if you have been badgering a ref all game he/she is more apt to call rinky-tick fouls on your team. Not saying that all do...but human nature is hard to fight sometimes....That's why they should call the "T" and move on.

 

I've never seen a ref change a call because a player, fan, or coach acted like a moron.

their collective inability to stop adding emotional, or situational emphasis on the calls that they make. Watch NBA officials. They don't get overly enthusiatic about any call. The most annoying officials are the ones who may not have an emotional stake in the game, yet seem to add that intensity to calls that they make, especially late in a game.

 

 

And for those who don't like fans arguing calls, too bad, every fan should have the opportunity to yell all they want, or not!!

It's part of all sports, let's hope it always will be. That said, no cussing, no threatening, name calling etc are ever appropriate and the BIGGEST taboo for any high school fan, is to attack any player (read kid) at any time. No matter that players' behavior.

 

Gotta roll.....game starts in a few :dancingpa

I know that all officials make mistakes as do coaches and players and there never is one person on a court who makes no mistakes, my problem is when officials make a mistake that changes the game, then denies that it effected the outcome or that it was a big difference. I respect officials much more when they have thicker skin and can admit when they were wrong...

I know that all officials make mistakes as do coaches and players and there never is one person on a court who makes no mistakes, my problem is when officials make a mistake that changes the game, then denies that it effected the outcome or that it was a big difference. I respect officials much more when they have thicker skin and can admit when they were wrong...

Officials don't have to justify, or answer that they "make a mistake" on a call....they are accountable to their assigning secretary and not the fans.

 

A call is a call and regardless of when it happened. Too often the blame is assigned to the official, for that "charge" or "walk" at the end of the game, costing one team but what about those 25 missed shots or 6-10 missed FT's...they affected the game being close in the first place.

 

Some ref's are good, in the proper position and still miss calls, while others struggle no matter where they are, but the games are decided by the teams, no matter how much we like/dislike the refs, on that night.