Officials don't have to justify, or answer that they "make a mistake" on a call....they are accountable to their assigning secretary and not the fans.

 

A call is a call and regardless of when it happened. Too often the blame is assigned to the official, for that "charge" or "walk" at the end of the game, costing one team but what about those 25 missed shots or 6-10 missed FT's...they affected the game being close in the first place.

 

Some ref's are good, in the proper position and still miss calls, while others struggle no matter where they are, but the games are decided by the teams, no matter how much we like/dislike the refs, on that night.

 

I'm sorry but I disagree with about 3/4ths of your post...

 

I am not saying that the referee needs to take up the mic and say "My bad I blew that one"to the whole crowd.... I mean when the coach or in very rare cases the speaking captain of the team calmly asks the official about a call they make and they defiantly say that there was no dispute that they made the right call and they are 100% sure that is was the right call without any discussion or explaination... I beleive the official does at least owe an explanation to the coach if he/she asks for one, especially if it is a big call in the game... "Sir can you watch the _________" should be responded with "okay I'll try to watch it" or no verbal response at all IMO... That doesn't always happen...

 

I was going to include something about your second point in my first post but didn't... Here it is... saying that the calls that are made have less effect on the outcome of the game than stats IN SOME GAMES is absolutely incorrect. Many games where people complain, this may be correct, but all games, no. There are certainly games that are decided by the calls at the end of the game. If a team misses 5 free throws the entire game and end up losing by 4 with some questionable calls, could a better performance at the foul line have helped them, yes, but it was not the soul entire reason for a loss... Its something that a lot of people don't want to hear but with all due respect to anyone who officiates, because I will say if they are good and will say if they are bad, but the fact is that some games are decided by the calls the people wearing the stripes make. Good call, bad call, no call at all, any of these situations does effect the outcome of the game SOMETIMES more than the stats...

Why do you think that ESPNguy? If the players on the floor take care of business then the officials should not have a bearing on the game. I am an official and a fan. We all agree officials miss calls but at the end of the night when you look back at the missed shots, the missed executions on offense, and the lack of defensive execution, you see why a team loses a game. Blaming the officials is usually an excuse that fans like to use when their team just didn't get the job done.

Why do you think that ESPNguy? If the players on the floor take care of business then the officials should not have a bearing on the game. I am an official and a fan. We all agree officials miss calls but at the end of the night when you look back at the missed shots, the missed executions on offense, and the lack of defensive execution, you see why a team loses a game. Blaming the officials is usually an excuse that fans like to use when their team just didn't get the job done.

 

 

I think you are taking my post the wrong way, and I expected people to do this. I did not say that teams lose every game because of officiating. I have seen without a doubt a lot of games where fans, maybe even me a couple times are quick to point the finger when they need to be looking where the thumb is pointing. But to say that there are no games where a call or two make a big difference in the game, and sometime the outcome would be foolish. I am not saying there is anything wrong with making or not making a good or bad call, but sometimes the players on the floor for both teams are taking care of business, and some factor has to decide it at some point. It may be a small or big call, a good or bad call, or even a no call, but eveyone has seen a game before where, just as you can't point to a certain big play a player makes to effect a game, you can point at a certain big call that is/isn't made that may have been the deciding factor. A team could always play better but no team will ever play perfect, so while saying that a team should have taken care of business is viable in many,many, many, many cases, it is foolish to say it applies to every single one.

 

On a side note, I have much respect for many officials. I know a few and communicate often with them. I know it is a hard job, I fully respect anyone that ever puts stripes on, but I simply don't agree that no game has ever been decided by a call or two...

Blaming the officials is usually an excuse that fans like to use when their team just didn't get the job done.

:thumb: And excuses are for losers....for people who aretoo lazy to put in the real work or discuss the real reasons why they are failing!...and they curse themselves to continued failure!

:thumb: And excuses are for losers....for people who aretoo lazy to put in the real work or discuss the real reasons why they are failing!...and they curse themselves to continued failure!

 

Agree, excuses are for losers, but also know there are very thin lines between excuses and reasons...

 

Heres what I'm saying... Everyone always says, the officials aren't perfect. I completely and totally agree. Everyone says that the teams could have done more to help themselves, again completely agree. But what isn't ever pointed out is the common ground here. Fact: Every referee is not going to get every call correct. BUT when people point out that team could always do better, it also has to be understood that there will never be a team that shoots 100% from the field and the foul line. A team cannot be perfect either. If the official can't be perfect, I'm pretty sure a team can't, but it always has to be someones fault... sometimes, thought rare, more evidence will point away from a team than to them...

I see your point ESPNGuy but bad calls are part of the game...

 

You have 2 guys...sometimes three trying to count to themselves for the 10-second call, the 5-second call, and the lane violation. They are watching the ball to see if it was inbounds, out of bounds, and if it was over and back. They watch feet (20 of them) to see lane violations, walking, charging, blocking, 3-point arc, inbounds, or out of bounds, and over and back calls. They are watching 20 hands for fouls, hand checking, who knocked the ball out of bounds, carrying....etc... They are also watching for body contact and positioning for over the back calls. They're listening for called timeouts and bad language. They also have to deal with coaches conduct and bench decorum....

 

There will be missed calls...it's part of the game...you must adjust to how the refs are calling the game...not vice-versa....

 

I think we are on the same side of this issue...just to different degrees!

I see your point ESPNGuy but bad calls are part of the game...

 

You have 2 guys...sometimes three trying to count to themselves for the 10-second call, the 5-second call, and the lane violation. They are watching the ball to see if it was inbounds, out of bounds, and if it was over and back. They watch feet (20 of them) to see lane violations, walking, charging, blocking, 3-point arc, inbounds, or out of bounds, and over and back calls. They are watching 20 hands for fouls, hand checking, who knocked the ball out of bounds, carrying....etc... They are also watching for body contact and positioning for over the back calls. They're listening for called timeouts and bad language. They also have to deal with coaches conduct and bench decorum....

 

There will be missed calls...it's part of the game...you must adjust to how the refs are calling the game...not vice-versa....

 

I think we are on the same side of this issue...just to different degrees!

 

Completely agree that the missed call is part of the game, it wouldn't be real basketball or nearly as fun if all calls were made completely correct...

 

But I also say that missed jumpers, layups, free throws, and turnovers are part of the game... whose fault is it? no ones fault, but the blame must go somewhere...

 

I too think that we are walking on the same street but in different directions if ya know what I mean... seeing all sides of the spectrum...

I'm sorry but I disagree with about 3/4ths of your post...

 

I am not saying that the referee needs to take up the mic and say "My bad I blew that one"to the whole crowd.... I mean when the coach or in very rare cases the speaking captain of the team calmly asks the official about a call they make and they defiantly say that there was no dispute that they made the right call and they are 100% sure that is was the right call without any discussion or explaination... I beleive the official does at least owe an explanation to the coach if he/she asks for one, especially if it is a big call in the game... "Sir can you watch the _________" should be responded with "okay I'll try to watch it" or no verbal response at all IMO... That doesn't always happen...

 

I was going to include something about your second point in my first post but didn't... Here it is... saying that the calls that are made have less effect on the outcome of the game than stats IN SOME GAMES is absolutely incorrect. Many games where people complain, this may be correct, but all games, no. There are certainly games that are decided by the calls at the end of the game. If a team misses 5 free throws the entire game and end up losing by 4 with some questionable calls, could a better performance at the foul line have helped them, yes, but it was not the soul entire reason for a loss... Its something that a lot of people don't want to hear but with all due respect to anyone who officiates, because I will say if they are good and will say if they are bad, but the fact is that some games are decided by the calls the people wearing the stripes make. Good call, bad call, no call at all, any of these situations does effect the outcome of the game SOMETIMES more than the stats...

You are entitled to disagree with my position, as anyone else is but I'm the type of person who says "games are decided by players and the decisions the coaches make, regarding those players"...you obviously take a different position and lay blame to refs....I don't

 

I've watch many, many athletic events from youth leagues, high school, college and pros....seen some terrible called games, both ways but what you need to absorb is, teams have their chances to affect the outcome.

 

Baseball - 7 innings (min. 21 at-bats)

Football - 4 qtrs. (min 30 offensive possessions and defensive chances)

Basketball- 4 qrts. (min 35 shots, 8 ft's and defensive chances)

 

Can officials make bad calls at the wrong time, YES....as do players and coaches make wrong decisions, that is why the games aren't just "first team to score wins"....play the entire game and adjust to the flow, players, defenses and calls....part of the game and not the cause of the game.

Very few, if any, officials are quick enough to determine on the spur of the moment how to make a call that will adversely effect one team on purpose. It happens too fast to go through that thought process. Some officials are just consistently bad, some are consistently good, and the vast majority fall somewhere in the middle just like in any other profession. Good teams adjust. Bad teams whine and generally lose.

With all due respect here, there are many biased opinions on the thread.

With all due respect (which is to say, not much), yours is one of them.

 

 

To say that a ref doesn't choose sides is totally ignorant.

To claim that all referees choose sides when calling a game is both ludicrous and laughable.

 

I have absolutely no doubt that there are probably 100 (or more) members of BGP that officiate, that would like to tell you exactly what they think of that uninformed, prejudicial, biased comment. I'm also sure that it wouldn't be pretty.

 

 

Frances

Obviously, Billy Packer didnt know this one when he called for traveling on Sparks against UL.

 

Now, we all know that you can shuffle your feet before you shoot, or change your pivot foot. But then UK players never do those things. I think Billy Packer knows what a walk is. Had it been the other way around, UK fans would be squawking too!

I sat through an officiating clinic, read the book and took the test and passed,

 

You asked the following question despite going through the process and passing?

 

If a player goes up for a layup and a player on the other team grabs the rim, is that a T. just curious

Now, we all know that you can shuffle your feet before you shoot, or change your pivot foot. But then UK players never do those things. I think Billy Packer knows what a walk is. Had it been the other way around, UK fans would be squawking too!

 

Here's some advice, Chief. If you don't know the context of a quote, don't get on here and try to be cute.

 

Billy Packer claimed Sparks walked WHEN TAKING THE BALL OUT OF BOUNDS. He did not know that there is no walking nor is there a pivot foot on a throw-in. He, like many uneducated fans, spouted off without knowing the rules and made a horse's patoot out of himself. If my ONLY job was to comment on b-ball games, you can bet your hump that I will know every rule before I criticize a ref and end up embarassing myself.

You are entitled to disagree with my position, as anyone else is but I'm the type of person who says "games are decided by players and the decisions the coaches make, regarding those players"...you obviously take a different position and lay blame to refs....I don't

 

I've watch many, many athletic events from youth leagues, high school, college and pros....seen some terrible called games, both ways but what you need to absorb is, teams have their chances to affect the outcome.

 

Baseball - 7 innings (min. 21 at-bats)

Football - 4 qtrs. (min 30 offensive possessions and defensive chances)

Basketball- 4 qrts. (min 35 shots, 8 ft's and defensive chances)

 

Can officials make bad calls at the wrong time, YES....as do players and coaches make wrong decisions, that is why the games aren't just "first team to score wins"....play the entire game and adjust to the flow, players, defenses and calls....part of the game and not the cause of the game.

 

Players have their chance to decide a game, yes. All I am trying to get across is that some big calls decide games more than what a player can do.... A player will never play a flawless game, nor will an official ever call a flawless game, but in both cases something that one of them does or doesn't do could be the difference.... I agree that in most cases when people are quick to point the finger at officials they are wrong and need to look at player performances, but not every single time.

Players have their chance to decide a game, yes. All I am trying to get across is that some big calls decide games more than what a player can do.... A player will never play a flawless game, nor will an official ever call a flawless game, but in both cases something that one of them does or doesn't do could be the difference.... I agree that in most cases when people are quick to point the finger at officials they are wrong and need to look at player performances, but not every single time.

...offer an "for instance", in which an official either did or didn't do something, that decided a game.....