The Harbin system is also a joke. If it wasn't for this lame system, there would be no worries. But because it matters, being 5-5 will not get you into the playoffs. Even being 6-4 is flurting with danger. Colerain went 8-2 in 2009 and LaSalle went 8-2 in 2005. Both teams missed the playoffs because of the Harbin system. It's obviously faulty.

 

While I do like the intent of the Harbin system (have the best teams advance to the playoffs) it does seem to faults with it like you say in the two examples above and it discourages schools from scheduling the exciting, bloodbath type schedules fans like.

While I do like the intent of the Harbin system (have the best teams advance to the playoffs) it does seem to faults with it like you say in the two examples above and it discourages schools from scheduling the exciting, bloodbath type schedules fans like.

 

It also ruined decades old rivalries

 

Cincy Elder vs Western Hills (Battle of Glenway Avenue) right down the same street

Cincy Elder vs Oak Hills (Price Hill vs Oak Hills) close by neighborhoods

 

Cincy LaSalle vs Colerain (Battle of White Oak) right around the corner from each other

 

Because of the utter lack of Harbin points for the winner, these rivalries are history and these teams never face off anymore. It's a shame!

I think the Harbin system is much better today with 8 teams getting in, in each region.

I think the Harbin system is much better today with 8 teams getting in, in each region.

 

Yes, 8 teams per region is better than the 4 of years ago, or the original 1 per region as in the late 1970's and early 1980's, but there are lots of flaws.

 

The Harbin System has several flaws. BlueBomber94 has three good examples, but many more can be listed. The one that I usually point out is that the Steubenville HS Big Red, a division 3 region 11 team in Ohio, made the Ohio playoffs in 2010 as a #2 seed in their region by going 8-2 (0-2 vs OHIO) teams. They got all their Harbin point by beating teams from out of the state of Ohio. Many Ohio teams such as Colerain cannot do that because they have to play 7 of their games in their 10 team conference. If you are independent like Steubenville or in a small conference such as the GCL-S (St. X, Moe, Elder and LaSalle) you can go out of conference to get teams that may give you many Harbin points. BTW, Steubenville lost their first round Home game in the 2010 playoffs.

 

IMO, the Harbin system needs to be tweaked to take into effect the number of games that a school plays out of conference.

Where did all these Yappi people come from!? My sanctuary has been exposed.

 

Play nice over here BB94. It's not like home, I can promise you that.

 

-CardinalsFan

BB94 is coming around...

All parties may be telling their version of the truth. I have no doubt that Trinity tried to keep the two Cincinnati schools on their schedule, they need games as it seems that they are having a hard time filling a 10 game schedule. I will refer to Cincinnati St. X as the Bombers in an attempt to eliminate the problem of St. X vs St. X and which one I am mean. If what is reported above is correct (and I have no reason to doubt it) the Bombers, do not seem to have needed to keep Trinity on their schedule, as they have a full schedule. The Bombers, realizing that Trinity is having a problem with filling a 10 game schedule may have seen this as their advantage and made demands for money, date or other perks that Trinity was not willing to meet, thus, in the mind of the Bombers' AD, they did not drop Trinity, the deal just could not be made.

 

As for Elder, after the thumping that the Panthers took at the Pit in 2011, they may have actually dropped Trinity as they may have felt that it was not to their advantage to continue the series. No one on here has said otherwise.

 

Because of the Harbin System, ALL games played by Ohio teams count toward their making and seeding in the playoffs. There are around 32 teams in the OHSAA Region 4 with only eight making the playoffs. Thus, the Ohio teams need games against teams that they feel they have a good chance to beat and earn Harbin points as a loss does not do them any good. If Elder does not feel that they have a chance to win against Trinity in 2013 or 2014, then they may choose to look elsewhere. On the other hand, in Kentucky, Trinity is already in the KHSAA playoffs, even if they go winless.

 

So in the KHSAA playoffs, an 0-10 team can make the playoffs? Why even bother having playoffs in that case? In OHSAA, despite the jacked up Harbin system, teams have to earn their way into the playoffs, by winning and showing they deserve to be there. To me, that makes more sense.

So in the KHSAA playoffs, an 0-10 team can make the playoffs? Why even bother having playoffs in that case? In OHSAA, despite the jacked up Harbin system, teams have to earn their way into the playoffs, by winning and showing they deserve to be there. To me, that makes more sense.

 

It is worse in Indiana.

It is worse in Indiana.

 

Oh I know. Indy Cathedral (huge OOS rivalry) plays Cincy X and despite starting out 0-3, the know they'll make the playoffs anyway and even possibly win the state championship. Ohio teams are lucky to make the playoffs with 3 losses.

Even in a bad year Trinity figures to win six or seven games and most years 8 to 10. If defeated, Trinity is a Harbin Cow.

 

For X, I think it is a complex formula between how good Trinity figures to be the next couple of years, how good X figures to be, and what opponents each of them both play thus reducing X's overall potential for Harbin points even in a victory. If I am not being clear here, think of Ohio teams in big leagues that only get to play a couple of outside league games. In the league, everyone beats everyone so you have a limited number of Harbin points available. In the case of Trinity and Cincy X, if they both play a lot of the same teams the same issue crops up. I am sure this was very calculated on X's part and I think they made a great business decision.

 

I agree with this and following the logic it makes much more sense for Colerain to play Trinity in a year when Trinity will also play Moe or Elder or maybe even LaSalle if they can ever get the coach thing settled. I'll ask Coach next time I see him. I also think that Bolden and Specht had this same discussion..just my gut feel.

I agree with this and following the logic it makes much more sense for Colerain to play Trinity in a year when Trinity will also play Moe or Elder or maybe even LaSalle if they can ever get the coach thing settled. I'll ask Coach next time I see him. I also think that Bolden and Specht had this same discussion..just my gut feel.

Anyway you spin it, the Bombers bailed out on Trinity, as did Elder, Brentwood Acdemy and MBA, and you can add Bowling Green and Highlands and the entire 6A KY group northern Kentucky schools from recent seasons.The Indy schools the Bombers picked up had a tough time scoring points last season. According to a prominent Trinity Alumnus, the Rocks picked up the Indiana 5A champs as well as the 4A champs and 'the other" Indiana big school power not named Warren Central or Ben Davis.

 

This season should be MUCH easier for the big schools in Cincy to qualify for the playoffs since their division was cut in half (7 divisons replaces 6)and they are competing with 50% fewer schools.

Anyway you spin it, the Bombers bailed out on Trinity, as did Elder, Brentwood Acdemy and MBA, and you can add Bowling Green and Highlands and the entire 6A KY group northern Kentucky schools from recent seasons.The Indy schools the Bombers picked up had a tough time scoring points last season. According to a prominent Trinity Alumnus, the Rocks picked up the Indiana 5A champs as well as the 4A champs and 'the other" Indiana big school power not named Warren Central or Ben Davis.

 

This season should be MUCH easier for the big schools in Cincy to qualify for the playoffs since their division was cut in half (7 divisons replaces 6)and they are competing with 50% fewer schools.

 

Anyway you spin it, both teams bailed, due to business decisions. Apparently Cincy X wasn't hurting to find competition as they have already picked up 2 big Indiana schools and still playing Cleve. St. Ignatius. St. X is playing 5 OOS teams (Ben Davis, Indy Cathedral, Warren Central, Brentwood Academy, Lou St. X), 3 GCL (league) games, St. Ignatius and Colerain. Not exactly an easy time qualifying for anything but a butt whooping. The Bombers don't play any Cincinnati team besides Colerain and their GCL rivals (required league games). St. X is not going to bail on a game on their home turf when they're reloaded. I can bet it was all business.

Anyway you spin it, the Bombers bailed out on Trinity, as did Elder, Brentwood Acdemy and MBA, and you can add Bowling Green and Highlands and the entire 6A KY group northern Kentucky schools from recent seasons.The Indy schools the Bombers picked up had a tough time scoring points last season. According to a prominent Trinity Alumnus, the Rocks picked up the Indiana 5A champs as well as the 4A champs and 'the other" Indiana big school power not named Warren Central or Ben Davis.

 

This season should be MUCH easier for the big schools in Cincy to qualify for the playoffs since their division was cut in half (7 divisons replaces 6)and they are competing with 50% fewer schools.

 

How can you say "bailed" when they just changed up their schedule a little to reflect the realities of the gauntlet type schedule they were playing which frankly never game them a chance to heal or get healthy. I bet it comes down to the same cast of characters fighting for the same playoff spots. If anything, the added division is offset by the increased parity of the norther suburb schools imo like Sycamore, the 2 Lakota's, Mason etc which is simply driven by changing demographics of the population leaving the inner city and going out to the burbs.

Off topic but would one of you that has a firm grip on the changes to the Ohio playoff system start another thread on it. I realize we are in KY but it is relevant because some KY schools play OH schools.

I would agree. I believe OH's playoff system dictates who they should schedule.

 

They get quality points from teams in the state who continue to win after you beat them.

Edited March 12, 201313 yr by Ram
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