SL has dominated the 13th region this season.... and probably will again next season.... although they will be more human. The next season they will be back to even par with the rest of the 13th region teams, but with their coaching staff, and the level of talent that they consistently have, they will be a perennial power in the 13th, and very easily a top 5 team each year.

 

Ppl seem to think that SL was only great last season and that they have had a great run that is about to end. If you are talking about there run as far as dominating the state then I would say you are right. In 2 years they will be brought back down to earth. But they dominated the 12th region for several years prior to there state title, and made it to the state tourney several times, not including the year Wayne won it. I dont see why they wont be able to do the same in the 13th. I see SL being the NEW perennial favorite year in and year out, even after they lose this years and next years class. Dont get me wrong.... they wont dominate the 13th like they have this year.... and they will take some losses.... but I see them being the favorite to win it come tourney time for quite some time, unless they have an off year or their program just goes sour all of a sudden. A mediocre SL is still a top 3 team in the 13th region.

 

I think alot of Clay ppl see this as well and its kinda hard to swallow!

 

I thought Wayne won the 12th Region several times. Didn't Mercer or someone with a losing record win the region a couple of years back?

I thought Wayne won the 12th Region several times. Didn't Mercer or someone with a losing record win the region a couple of years back?

 

Not sure about the exact records..... but I know SL won it several years while I was still in HS and after I was out, and also made several good runs in the state tourney before winning the big one. During this run Wayne won it once. I cant speak for Mercer.

'00 - Mercer

'01 - SL

'02 - Wayne

'03 - SL

'04 - Wayne

'05 - SL

Not sure about the exact records..... but I know SL won it several years while I was still in HS and after I was out, and also made several good runs in the state tourney before winning the big one. During this run Wayne won it once. I cant speak for Mercer.

 

You may need double check your facts before posting in the future.

 

1) Wayne Co. did not win the state tourney, but they were runner-up in '89.

2) Prior to last year, South Laurel and the old Laurel County school had won exactly one game in the state tournament in 20+ years, so which years did they make these "several good runs".

3) Mercer Co. lost by 48 points in the first round of the 2000 state tournament.

Walls is a good player, but he's a notch below Proffitt.

 

I disagree with you on this one, Jim.

You may need double check your facts before posting in the future.

 

1) Wayne Co. did not win the state tourney, but they were runner-up in '89.

2) Prior to last year, South Laurel and the old Laurel County school had won exactly one game in the state tournament in 20+ years, so which years did they make these "several good runs".

3) Mercer Co. lost by 48 points in the first round of the 2000 state tournament.

 

I hate when ppl get on me about my facts and dont even understand what I am posting. I think you may need to read my post's a little closer. I think you misunderstood my whole post...... I was talking about the 12th region tournament..... not the state tournament..... the only time I mentioned the state tourney was when I said that SL won "the big one" and made "several good runs." You are right though... I was wrong to say "several" as it was only one good run, besides the year they won the whole shebang.

 

1.) I never said Wayne Co won the state tourney.... I said they won the region tourney!

 

2.) I was talking about SL winning the 12th region 3 times in 5 years, that they were one of the favorites to win it each year, and that they have been a top 3 team every year in that region since 1999. I was simply pointing out that I thought they would have the same reputation in the 13th (especially considering they will most likely win the 13th Region their first two years in it).

 

The one good run in the state tourney that I mentioned (once again....my mistake for saying several) was 01. If I remember correctly they made it to the elite 8.... fought eventual state runner up Male to the bitter end, something no one gave them even a remote chance of doing. For a team in SE KY, thats a pretty solid run in the state tourney.

 

3.) I never even mentioned Mercer Co..... someone else brought it up first and I simply said I could not comment on them.

 

SL won the 12th region in '01, '03, '05, and '04 if I'm not mistaken..... '02 was the only year Wayne Co won it, they did not win it in '04.

 

Checked the KHSAA website and it had SL winning it in '04, so if I am wrong then so is the website. Dont shoot the messenger.

 

South Laurel has won 3 of the last 5 12th region tournaments. Wayne Co. won it in 2002 and 2004(Wayne beat South 69-48 in the regional tournament). This info is from the KHSAA website.

South beat Campbell Co. by a score of 64-63 on a last second put-back to win their first round game in 2001 before losing to Male by a score of 63-53.

(deleted by author)

South Laurel has won 3 of the last 5 12th region tournaments. Wayne Co. won it in 2002 and 2004(Wayne beat South 69-48 in the regional tournament). This info is from the KHSAA website.

South beat Campbell Co. by a score of 64-63 on a last second put-back to win their first round game in 2001 before losing to Male by a score of 63-53.

 

You are right about the '04 year which is why I edited my last post before you even posted the post I have quoted from you. For some reason I thought Wayne Co won it, but the KHSAA website '04 Sweet Sixteen Tourney Info from the drop down menu had SL losing one game in the state tourney so I went ahead and posted that they may have won it in '04. I edited that post however because that didnt make sense after I thought about it. When I went and checked the schedules of the teams it had SL losing in the regional final to Wayne which would have meant SL couldnt have lost a game in the state tourney because they werent even there. Don't know why the website had SL losing one state tourney game.... but it is there for all to see.

 

As far as the '01 year there is no discrepancy.... like I said before..... SL beating Campell and playing Male tough with a chance to win it (when everyone thought they would get blown out) is a pretty good run for a SE KY team considering most all SE KY teams get completely dominated in the first round.

 

Like I said before...... my point was that SL has been a top 3-5 team in the 12th region since '99, excluding maybe a year or two. I dont see it being any different with them in the 13th region.

I totally agree...... basketball is a team game...... and if you play on a good team (especially a team who wins the big one at Rupp :sssh: ) then you get more hype....... but that doesnt take away from what he has done...... it only validates what he has done because he has done it against the best the state has to offer!

 

I dont think Proffitt playing on a great team should detract from his ability and his on the court accomplishments..... it only proves that if he is good enough to start at SL and excel there then he is most likely good enough to start anywhere in the state and would excel anywhere in the state!

 

If Proffitt and Miller switch, who knows that happens. That argument works both ways..... you could say that Miller doesnt do as much as SL because of the talent level there...... and you could say that Proffitt does way more at M'boro because of the lack of talent there. Or you could reverse it and say Miller stands out at SL because he has more talent surrounding him....... and Proffitt doesnt shine at M'boro because he doesnt have a great supporting crew. It works both ways and I think you cant look at the whole Proffitt vs Miller debate from that perspective.

 

I think you have to look at it like this...... If you had a basketball team, which player do you want leading your team into battle..... Proffitt or Miller?

 

Based on Proffitt's accomplishments and experience on the big stage..... I choose Proffitt. Miller is a great shooter, great ball handler, and great athlete..... but I want a leader who knows how to win, doesnt hurt my team, and plays clutch and the edge goes to Proffitt in those categories.

 

 

I've sat around and watched some dumb things being said but this one takes the cake!!!

 

First of all, here are a few stats for you (via KHSAA--I don't want you to have to stick that foot in your mouth again by asking for a source)

 

State Scoring Leaders

6.Miller 25.4 points per game

(Profitt not to be found)

 

FT%

6.Miller 88%

(Profitt not to be found)

 

3-PT PG

1.Miller 4.7 (39%)

2.Knowles (Clark County) 41%

3.Hicks (Hazard) 35%

4.Osbourne (Marion) 40%

5.Vanhoose (Russell) 36%

 

 

Ok, before the numbers were brought to surface in the thread, you went against Miller going for the state record in 3's by saying he simply chucks up the threes whenever he wants. Come to find out, he shoots for a very respectable %. J.J Redick only shoots 42.4%--compared to Miller's 39%. I am in no way comparing their ability but would you go off saying Redick shoots ill-advised shots?? Actually, his would probably be even more ill-advised since he has one of the best big men in the country as opposed to Miller not having another person on his team pose any sort of threat.

 

Then, you had the gaul to say that Miller would hurt your team?? That comment is coming straight from the mouth of a Bell County Alumni (Middlesboro Hater) if I have ever seen it. That is amazingly bias!!

 

As many have said, the only reason you have material to draw for Proffitt from the big stage is because he had the talent around him to make it there. Had he not been on such a loaded team, I believe this wouldn't even be an argument.

I've sat around and watched some dumb things being said but this one takes the cake!!!

 

First of all, here are a few stats for you (via KHSAA--I don't want you to have to stick that foot in your mouth again by asking for a source)

 

State Scoring Leaders

6.Miller 25.4 points per game

(Profitt not to be found)

 

FT%

6.Miller 88%

(Profitt not to be found)

 

3-PT PG

1.Miller 4.7 (39%)

2.Knowles (Clark County) 41%

3.Hicks (Hazard) 35%

4.Osbourne (Marion) 40%

5.Vanhoose (Russell) 36%

 

 

Ok, before the numbers were brought to surface in the thread, you went against Miller going for the state record in 3's by saying he simply chucks up the threes whenever he wants. Come to find out, he shoots for a very respectable %. J.J Redick only shoots 42.4%--compared to Miller's 39%. I am in no way comparing their ability but would you go off saying Redick shoots ill-advised shots?? Actually, his would probably be even more ill-advised since he has one of the best big men in the country as opposed to Miller not having another person on his team pose any sort of threat.

 

Then, you had the gaul to say that Miller would hurt your team?? That comment is coming straight from the mouth of a Bell County Alumni (Middlesboro Hater) if I have ever seen it. That is amazingly bias!!

 

As many have said, the only reason you have material to draw for Proffitt from the big stage is because he had the talent around him to make it there. Had he not been on such a loaded team, I believe this wouldn't even be an argument.

 

So because my opinion differs from you, or because Im a Bell Co alumn, then its stupid. LOL. Gotcha!! :thumb:

 

STATS:

I dont care bout his scoring stats........ a wise coach once said "stats dont mean anything." His stats dont show me clutch and they dont show me that he doesnt hurt his team...... because he does. He turns the ball over and plays little to no defense, not to mention the fact that when he gets trigger happy and isnt on fire he really hurts his team. I'm not saying he doesnt help his team as well, or that he isnt a great shooter. Maybe its just the curse of being ONLY a great shooter..... when you are hot you help your team tremendously, but when you arent hot you would be better off sitting. Kinda like Patrick Sparks.

 

The reason Proffitt isnt one of the states scoring leaders is because his team is good and he has other guys that can score as well..... he doesnt have to do it all himself, and his role isnt to score 30 points a night. SL can have 6 different guys that can lead them in scoring on different nights... from Allen to Proffitt to Riley to Hammonds to Smith and etc. If Miller played on a team like that I doubt he would always be putting up crazy stats because #1 - he wouldnt play the whole game and #2 - he'd either learn to pass the ball to the hot hand that night or hed get benched

 

A few of the Miller supporters argue that Miller is scoring 30 something points against Knox Cental (or teams of equal talent) while playing every minute, and here is my response....... If Proffitt can score in the teens or right around 20 something points while just playing 1/2 a game or less against those teams, then I'd be willing to bet he'd score twice that many or more if he was left in the entire game. You cant compare stats between these 2 players...... its like comparing the stats of Vince Young or Matt Leinhart, both who competes against the best in the nation, to the stats of the best QB in the WAC. Even if that QB from the WAC has better numbers he isnt better then Young or Leinhart if only for the sole reason that he doesnt play against the same level of talent.

 

MILLER AND REDDICK COMPARISON:

As far as your comparison between Reddick and Miller...... I would absolutely say that Reddick takes some ill advised shots. Against NC State he was 4-11 from 3 point range, and he took some ill advised shots. The difference between Reddick's situation and Miller's is that Reddick can afford to take those shots because of the talent that surrounds him. His team makes up for it. Miller doesnt have a great supporting crew and when he gets trigger happy and isnt on fire it hurts his team. Now vouch...... when Miller is on fire then he could get as trigger happy as he wanted to and I'd not say a thing.

 

Too..... as I have said.... Miller is great and looks really good against the weak competition he plays against. But you have to remember that alot of guys look great against weaker competition but when they get around equal or better talent they sorta dissappear, or at least just become another big fish in a pond full of big fish. This is the reason alot of HS standouts go on to college and sorta fizzle or just become an average role player because the talent of the competition is equal or greater. I think this analogy fits when you compare the accomplishments of Proffitt and Miller. Miller looks great against some weak teams, but Proffitt has done what he has done against THE BEST..... period. He plays against better, quicker, tougher teams and he still performs big individually. I'm not saying that Miller wouldnt do equally well against tougher teams..... but I am saying that he would not be scoring as much or draining threes like he does if he played WITH or AGAINST better competition.

HE PLAYS IN THE SAME REGION AS PROFFITT!! What don't you get about that. That means that about half of their opponents are going to be the same. Saying Proffitt is like Vince Young or Leinhart is just rediculous. If anything, a better comparison would be that Proffitt is like A.J. Hawk while Miller is like Leinhart. While comparing basketball players to football players is retarted, Proffitt, like you said, is a defensive player who is a veyr gifted leader. Miller on the other hand, is one diminsional but still excels at what he does.

 

Did you not read the very first post in the thread. Miller dominated against NL, SL biggest rival. If you are bashing that competition then you are also bashing the competition of SL.

 

You say Reddick can afford to take those shots because of the talent around him, then why isn't ole Proffitt putting up some shots. My guess is, he knows he isn't a supurb shooter. Heck, he isn't even one of the best free throw shooters in the state, when nobody is guarding him. You say stats don't say anything about being clutch but I would disagree. Making a shot when you are the only one involved in the play and your team is consistently down in the game, needing you to make the shot, says a lot about that player. Middlesboro is nearly always losing and when the team counts on Miller at the line, he cashes in.

 

Not too mention he has made countless last second shots to win. I'm sorry I don't have an exact number at hand, that stat doesn't exist.

 

You say he is ONLY a great shooter. Now let's get real. He is just as good defensively as any other high school player, not too mention, he crashes the boards hard. He may not average 10 a game but if he is any where close, he is coming away with it.

HE PLAYS IN THE SAME REGION AS PROFFITT!! What don't you get about that. That means that about half of their opponents are going to be the same. Saying Proffitt is like Vince Young or Leinhart is just rediculous. If anything, a better comparison would be that Proffitt is like A.J. Hawk while Miller is like Leinhart. While comparing basketball players to football players is retarted, Proffitt, like you said, is a defensive player who is a veyr gifted leader. Miller on the other hand, is one diminsional but still excels at what he does.

 

Did you not read the very first post in the thread. Miller dominated against NL, SL biggest rival. If you are bashing that competition then you are also bashing the competition of SL.

 

You say Reddick can afford to take those shots because of the talent around him, then why isn't ole Proffitt putting up some shots. My guess is, he knows he isn't a supurb shooter. Heck, he isn't even one of the best free throw shooters in the state, when nobody is guarding him. You say stats don't say anything about being clutch but I would disagree. Making a shot when you are the only one involved in the play and your team is consistently down in the game, needing you to make the shot, says a lot about that player. Middlesboro is nearly always losing and when the team counts on Miller at the line, he cashes in.

 

Not too mention he has made countless last second shots to win. I'm sorry I don't have an exact number at hand, that stat doesn't exist.

 

You say he is ONLY a great shooter. Now let's get real. He is just as good defensively as any other high school player, not too mention, he crashes the boards hard. He may not average 10 a game but if he is any where close, he is coming away with it.

 

 

First off..... my comparison of Miller and Proffitt to football players was only to prove that statistics, no matter what the sport, really cant be used to compare two individual players when those two players play much different levels of competition.

 

As far as your point that they play in the same region and therefore the same competition.... I must not have been clear enough. You are right they play similiar competition, but ONLY in this region...... not outside of that. While M'boro is scheduling second rate competition so they can get a few W's on the schedule, SL is scheduling not only some of the best teams in the state, but some of the best teams in the nation. Now that doesnt mean SL is on the same level as some of the best teams in the nation, because they arent. Nor does it mean that Proffitt is on the same level as some of the best players in the nation, because he isnt...... but if Proffitt can score in the teens against those teams, its analogous to, if not better than, scoring 35 against Knox Central. When you consider that Proffitt hasnt played more then a 1/2 a game against any team in the 13th region except NL then I think you can see why he doesnt score 30 a game. Also..... I will not fail to mention that Proffitt and Miller have not always played in the same region, and IMO the 12th region as a whole over the last few years, has been a more talented region then the 13th.

 

By the way..... Miller did play very good against NL. Proffitt played equally as good IMO against NL. He didnt score as much as Miller did, but Proffitt did get his own and did alot of other things that a great PG does to get his team the win. I wouldnt expect Proffitt to ever score as much as Miller against NL because #1 it isnt Proffitts role #2 SL is loaded with alot of great scorers and they spread the ball out. I think alot of what Miller did against NL can be contributed to the fact that the NL staff's gameplan was to let Miller get his points but contain him, totally shut down everyone else, and take home the win. They knew Miller cant beat you alone and so do alot of other teams and that is why they play him the way they do. Everyone on here talks about Miller getting double and triple teamed while still scoring all these points..... but the games I have seen he does occasionally draw the double team, but never gets triple teamed. It appears to me that most coaches dont alot as much attention to Miller as some on this board would have us believe. Coaches dont try to totally shut down Miller #1 because you cant and #2 because its pointless when you consider that the rest of his team is horrible. Coaches have no need to focus soley on Miller because as great as he is....... he cant beat a 5 man squad on his own (no player can for that matter), and so most teams are willing to give him his 30 as long as they can contain him somewhat. Miller's 30 points a game arent dangerous to a coach, because his points alone arent enough to beat you, unless someone else plays big as well as Miller. Most coaches know this wont happen because M'boro's squad, with the exception of Miller, isnt very good. If they just simply contain Miller somewhat then they will win the game. Most coaches know this and focus their efforts on playing a COMPLETE defensive game with emphasis on Miller..... they dont just focus soley on Miller by triple teaming him because they know its pointless, he is going to get his points irregardless.

 

About being clutch.... maybe Miller scoring the game winning shot against sub par teams when the outcome of those games mean nothing is clutch to you..... but it isnt to me. Clutch to me means making the big plays in the big games at big times. Proffitt has done that consistently. Now.... maybe if Miller was put on the big stage (like a district championship game, regional championship game, state tourney game, or big time out of state tourney game) then he would perform just as clutch. But who knows cause his team cant get there because their competitive level, as well as the competitive level of those they play, isnt that great.

 

As far as him being ONLY a great shooter..... you are right, he is also a great athlete that can create for himself with his quickness and ball handling. However..... he isnt as good a defensive player as any other HS bball player and he doesnt crash the boards hard. You said my statements were the craziest you had ever read. Well IMO the above bolded statement is the craziest thing I have ever read on this board and it just goes to show you dont know what good defensive basketball is if you think Miller is as good a defensive player as any other HS bball player. There are better defensive bball players on the same team as Miller.

You may need double check your facts before posting in the future.

 

2) Prior to last year, South Laurel and the old Laurel County school had won exactly one game in the state tournament in 20+ years, so which years did they make these "several good runs".

 

So Laurel County only one 1 game in 1982 when they won the state title? I remember this a little differently! I don't remember them getting any byes, just tough games with the likes of Virgie and North Hardin en route to the state title.

So Laurel County only one 1 game in 1982 when they won the state title? I remember this a little differently! I don't remember them getting any byes, just tough games with the likes of Virgie and North Hardin en route to the state title.

 

I was thinking there was a year in the 80's when Laurel's Boy's team won it because I remember that teams picture hanging in the gym. I wasnt for sure though about the specifics and didnt want to stick my foot in my mouth. Glad someone else had the hard facts.