Originally Posted by Les

I will tell you what Miller can do while playing for Middlesboro - How about playing some defense? Heck it doesn't matter that he scored 34 against North, the guy he guarded scored 24. Kinda of cancels him out, huh?

 

 

Mboro played a zone according to NL coach

 

He still has a defensive responsibility to stop the man in his zone and I'm sure M'boro wasnt in a zone the entire game! In case you werent at the game Miller did guard Allen most of the game and Allen did put up 24.

W/re to your comparison, also appropriate would be to compare strength of schedule, because I'd be willing to bet that Miller has played against much softer competition than Proffitt during their times as varsity players.

 

That is a given. SL's strength of schedule is out the roof compared to M'boro's!

Dont mean to take away from this thread and get off topic..... but (and I will end my comments at this):

 

You are either badly mistaken, a big SL detractor, or a big M'boro fan because Proffitt, although not the big 3 point shooter like Miller, is head and shoulders above Miller and the rest of the PG's in this region.

 

He won MVP of a tourney in Carolina this season featurning some great teams from across the nation. If not for Walt Allen, he would have been MVP of the state tourney last season as a sophomore. Dont even mention he was on the all state tourney team and will probably be up for Mr. Basketball his senior year. He runs his team better then anyone and knows how to win! If you think Miller is better then Proffitt then you..... well I will stop there.

4chs...... what can I say, Im passionate about sports and I hate seeing ppl who argue stupid points with little or no evidence to back it up! :thumb:

 

By the way...... did you ever learn to count SL's & Laurel Co's state tourney wins between 1982 and 2005!

He still has a defensive responsibility to stop the man in his zone and I'm sure M'boro wasnt in a zone the entire game! In case you werent at the game Miller did guard Allen most of the game and Allen did put up 24.

were you at the game?

W/re to your comparison, also appropriate would be to compare strength of schedule, because I'd be willing to bet that Miller has played against much softer competition than Proffitt during their times as varsity players.

 

:thumb:

4chs...... what can I say, Im passionate about sports and I hate seeing ppl who argue stupid points with little or no evidence to back it up! :thumb:

 

You must not read your own posts then.

 

By the way...... did you ever learn to count SL's & Laurel Co's state tourney wins between 1982 and 2005!

 

Yes, they had one win between 1982 and 2005(which includes the years 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986..............................,2001, 2002, 2003, 2004.

ammunition for everyone.

 

http://www.sentinel-echo.com/articles/2006/01/20/sports/sports01_swat.txt

were you at the game?

 

No I wasnt...... I know several NL and M'boro "supporters" close to the programs who are much more objective then some on this board..... I assure you that M'boro was not in a zone all night long, and Miller did D up Allen most of the night.

ammunition for everyone.

 

http://www.sentinel-echo.com/articles/2006/01/20/sports/sports01_swat.txt

 

Must be a subscriber or signed up user to read the article. Give us a jist!

Yes, they had one win between 1982 and 2005(which includes the years 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986..............................,2001, 2002, 2003, 2004.

 

Which also ncludes those book end years of '82 and '05 as well!

 

Here is a good example.....If someone says "between 2001 and 2003 such and such took place" they dont just mean the year 2002....... LOL. No one ever uses the word between in that context unless they are including the 2 book end years. In that case you might want to include '82 and '05 and that would mean 9..... count it 9...... state tourney wins!

 

Now between '83 and '04 SL had only 1 state tourney win.... well yeah.... that is correct!

 

Just a little english lesson!

Jags swat Yellowjackets

By Peter W. Zubaty, Sports Writer

 

Nick Shannon sank a pair of free throws after rebounding a last-ditch Middlesboro three-point attempt with less than a second to play, lifting North Laurel to an 83-78 win Tuesday.

 

The Jaguars had to endure a 34-point outburst by senior guard Stuart Miller and a smoking-hot first half shooting (64 percent) to finally overcome the upset-minded YellowJackets, who had lost six straight going into the game.

 

North Laurel senior forward Justin Howard drew the unenviable task of trying to slow down Miller.

 

“That's the toughest player I've ever had to guard,” Howard said. “He can pull from anywhere and go off the dribble.”

 

But, Howard said, “one player ain't going to beat you. (The goal was to) pressure him into missing some shots.”

 

In all, Miller - a career 2,000-point scorer and one of the top three-point shooters in Kentucky history - hit 11 of 22 shots from the field, including seven of 17 from outside the arc, and all five of his free throws.

 

“He made some big-time shots,” Jags coach Jim Conway said. “I'm just happy to get out with a win.”

 

He didn't have an opportunity to take the last shot for the Jackets, however, as the Jags double-teamed Miller over the final 20 seconds, forcing Miller to dish off to Daniel Griffin to take the shot to try to tie the game at 81. Griffin had already hit five three-pointers of his own in the game, but his attempt rimmed off and into the arms of Shannon.

“We shot the ball pretty well,” said Middlesboro coach Bill Jones. “We got a pretty good shot there at the end.”

 

Middlesboro (3-12) hit 14-of-22 and raced out to leads as large as 11 in the first half, but the Jags scored the last four points of the half to go into the locker room down 39-33.

“They shot lights-out,” Conway said. “I was concerned.”

 

Still, the Jags shot well in the first half in their own right, hitting 15-of-31 (48 percent). But the Middlesboro zone posed problems at times as the Jags seemed content to chuck it from behind the arc, missing 12-of-15 threes in the first half.

 

“We just got out here and started passing, but didn't penetrate,” point guard Shanade Allen said.

 

In the second half the Jags came around and played to their strengths, as seniors Allen and Billy Carson attacked the basket with a vengeance. The third quarter saw Allen and Carson score nine points apiece to lead North from a six-point deficit to a four-point lead.

We have to do a good job penetrating the seams and using our quickness,” Conway said. “I'm just glad they came to their senses in the second half.”

 

In all, the Jaguars torched the nets to the tune of 64 percent in the second half to improve to 55 percent overall. They missed only three shots in the third quarter while pulling ahead.

 

Middlesboro wasn't far behind, hitting 52 percent. They hit 13-of-29 three-pointers (45 percent), but hit only one of six in the pivotal third quarter.

 

Carson finished with 24 and Allen had 23 to lead North. They scored 15 apiece after halftime.

 

The Jaguars also got a 13-point, nine-rebound effort from Shawn Asher, who led his team to a dominant 31-13 advantage on the glass. Howard added 14.

 

The Jaguars were at home for the first time in more than a month.

“It's nice to see this green and blue floor again, and wear our new white uniforms,” Howard said.

Jags swat Yellowjackets

By Peter W. Zubaty, Sports Writer

 

Nick Shannon sank a pair of free throws after rebounding a last-ditch Middlesboro three-point attempt with less than a second to play, lifting North Laurel to an 83-78 win Tuesday.

 

The Jaguars had to endure a 34-point outburst by senior guard Stuart Miller and a smoking-hot first half shooting (64 percent) to finally overcome the upset-minded YellowJackets, who had lost six straight going into the game.

 

North Laurel senior forward Justin Howard drew the unenviable task of trying to slow down Miller.

 

“That's the toughest player I've ever had to guard,” Howard said. “He can pull from anywhere and go off the dribble.”

 

But, Howard said, “one player ain't going to beat you. (The goal was to) pressure him into missing some shots.”

In all, Miller - a career 2,000-point scorer and one of the top three-point shooters in Kentucky history - hit 11 of 22 shots from the field, including seven of 17 from outside the arc, and all five of his free throws.

 

“He made some big-time shots,” Jags coach Jim Conway said. “I'm just happy to get out with a win.”

 

He didn't have an opportunity to take the last shot for the Jackets, however, as the Jags double-teamed Miller over the final 20 seconds, forcing Miller to dish off to Daniel Griffin to take the shot to try to tie the game at 81. Griffin had already hit five three-pointers of his own in the game, but his attempt rimmed off and into the arms of Shannon.

“We shot the ball pretty well,” said Middlesboro coach Bill Jones. “We got a pretty good shot there at the end.”

 

Middlesboro (3-12) hit 14-of-22 and raced out to leads as large as 11 in the first half, but the Jags scored the last four points of the half to go into the locker room down 39-33.

“They shot lights-out,” Conway said. “I was concerned.”

 

Still, the Jags shot well in the first half in their own right, hitting 15-of-31 (48 percent). But the Middlesboro zone posed problems at times as the Jags seemed content to chuck it from behind the arc, missing 12-of-15 threes in the first half.

 

“We just got out here and started passing, but didn't penetrate,” point guard Shanade Allen said.

 

In the second half the Jags came around and played to their strengths, as seniors Allen and Billy Carson attacked the basket with a vengeance. The third quarter saw Allen and Carson score nine points apiece to lead North from a six-point deficit to a four-point lead.

We have to do a good job penetrating the seams and using our quickness,” Conway said. “I'm just glad they came to their senses in the second half.”

 

In all, the Jaguars torched the nets to the tune of 64 percent in the second half to improve to 55 percent overall. They missed only three shots in the third quarter while pulling ahead.

 

Middlesboro wasn't far behind, hitting 52 percent. They hit 13-of-29 three-pointers (45 percent), but hit only one of six in the pivotal third quarter.

 

Carson finished with 24 and Allen had 23 to lead North. They scored 15 apiece after halftime.

 

The Jaguars also got a 13-point, nine-rebound effort from Shawn Asher, who led his team to a dominant 31-13 advantage on the glass. Howard added 14.

 

The Jaguars were at home for the first time in more than a month.

“It's nice to see this green and blue floor again, and wear our new white uniforms,” Howard said.

 

I dont think anyone can argue that he can shoot the 3 ball as good as anyone in the state...... nor can they argue that he can handle the ball extremely well and is extremely quick and athletic. I have always said this! No skin off my back for that.

 

However Howard put it best whenever he said..... one man isnt going to beat you. This is exactly what I have said all along. Everyone acts like Miller is a one man show..... but he isnt. He is very 1 dimensional in the fact that all he can really do is shoot the 3. He isnt going to play lock down defense and he is going to make some bad decisions.

 

The NL staff and Howard both knew this and they played him exactly the way most teams play him......... Let Miller have his 30+, but contain him enough to where he doesnt beat you on his own, play solid defense on the rest of the M'boro squad and you walk away with a win.

 

I'm not saying that teams just give Miller his 30+ a game, but its not like they are double and triple teaming him from start to finish. Most teams put their best man on him and occasionally double him...... hope that that can slow him down a little..... and then play solid defense across the board.

 

Also.... M'boro was 1 for 6 in the third..... probably just as bad in the 4th..... and Miller probably took most of those shots and didnt even take the final shot for the Jackets. Not very clutch if you ask me.

I dont think anyone can argue that he can shoot the 3 ball as good as anyone in the state...... nor can they argue that he can handle the ball extremely well and is extremely quick and athletic. I have always said this! No skin off my back for that.

 

However Howard put it best whenever he said..... one man isnt going to beat you. This is exactly what I have said all along. Everyone acts like Miller is a one man show..... but he isnt. He is very 1 dimensional in the fact that all he can really do is shoot the 3. He isnt going to play lock down defense and he is going to make some bad decisions.

 

The NL staff and Howard both knew this and they played him exactly the way most teams play him......... Let Miller have his 30+, but contain him enough to where he doesnt beat you on his own, play solid defense on the rest of the M'boro squad and you walk away with a win.

 

I'm not saying that teams just give Miller his 30+ a game, but its not like they are double and triple teaming him from start to finish. Most teams put their best man on him and occasionally double him...... hope that that can slow him down a little..... and then play solid defense across the board.

 

Also.... M'boro was 1 for 6 in the third..... probably just as bad in the 4th..... and Miller probably took most of those shots and didnt even take the final shot for the Jackets. Not very clutch if you ask me.

 

WOW!! Where do I begin with this statement?? First of all, this quote:

 

"North Laurel senior forward Justin Howard drew the unenviable task of trying to slow down Miller.

 

“That's the toughest player I've ever had to guard,” Howard said. “He can pull from anywhere and go off the dribble.”"

 

is coming from a guy who has faced South Laurel (Proffitt), Hazard, Ballard, Trinity, Ashland Blazer, Bryan Station, and Madison Southern this season.

 

A player who last year faced the likes of Lexington Catholic (23-8), West Jessamine (22-7), South Laurel (32-4), DuPont Manuel (24-7), Muhlenburg North (23-7), Bryan Station (24-8), Clay County (21-8) to name a few.

 

The kid has faced off with Proffitt 12 times for goodness sakes. He's played Oak Hill twice. And he came away from his game with Middlesboro saying Miller is the toughest player he has ever guarded. I think that is a little more of a compliment than you are making it out to be.

 

"Everyone acts like Miller is a one man show..... but he isnt. He is very 1 dimensional in the fact that all he can really do is shoot the 3."

 

Actually I think that Miller being a one man show for Middlesboro is exactly what they are saying. He said one man can't beat you, meaning that even though Miller is nearly unstoppable at scoring, the rest of the players have to be good enough as well for the team to have a chance at winning. The fact that they don't have anyone else capable, labels this team as truly, a "one man show".

 

"Most teams put their best man on him and occasionally double him...... hope that that can slow him down a little..... and then play solid defense across the board."

 

Being man-up against the opponents best defender and then another player sounds to me like some pretty intense defense. Especially in a region who always produces great point guards. I also think this compliments Miller because in spite of every team doing all of this, he always comes away shooting about 40 percent from the 3 (which is great for a high school player) and scoring his 25-30 points a game.

"The NL staff and Howard both knew this and they played him exactly the way most teams play him......... Let Miller have his 30+, but contain him enough to where he doesnt beat you on his own, play solid defense on the rest of the M'boro squad and you walk away with a win."

 

Let Miller have his 30+ but contain him enough to where he doesn't beat you on his own?? First of all, 30+ is really contained. Second of all, if you are giving up 30 to him saying that you are containing him enough to where he doesn't beat you on his own, you are conceding to the fact that the boy is very capable of putting up 50 points in one outing. I don't care how many times you shoot the rock, in high school, if you score 50 points, you are a man amongst boys. Period.

 

I dont think you are getting the whole team aspect too clearly. I am conceding the fact that if you allow Miller to score 30-40 points and play solid defense on the rest of the team, then you will come away with the win, due to the fact that he is surrounded by zero talent.

 

"Also.... M'boro was 1 for 6 in the third..... probably just as bad in the 4th..... and Miller probably took most of those shots and didnt even take the final shot for the Jackets. Not very clutch if you ask me"

 

Is this pure hypothetical or what?? Do you actually have a clue how the shots broke down or are you just construing this stat to be the only one that goes in your favor??? You keep bashing the boy for being selfish but you can't have your cake and eat it too. Either he passes the ball to other players when they are open (being "not very clutch as you would say), or he puts up a shot with two men on him.

 

The article says

"He didn't have an opportunity to take the last shot for the Jackets, however, as the Jags double-teamed Miller over the final 20 seconds"

 

Tell me, what is the cardinal rule on offense when you notice that you are being double teamed??? If you are double teamed, that means someone else is wide open. Call the boy un-clutch for finding the open man if you want and not forcing a three with two men in his face.

First off.... I would say that the 12th region being right over .500 against the 13th region since '99 goes to prove that the 12th region, at least recently, has been better year in and year out then the 13th region. Therefore I am not wrong! Winning more games then you lose to a specific opponent= superiority to that opponent. If the 12th region wins 6 out of the 10 games they play against the 13th then I think that would mean they are the better region.

 

I'd be curious to know exactly what the 12th region's record against the 13th region is since '03 to the present..... since that is the first that Proffitt and Miller saw action in a varsity HS game and would really give us a better indication of the talent level that Proffitt has played against in the 12th compared to the talent level that Miller has played against in the 13th. The years before '03 really mean nothing in terms of comparing the talent that Proffitt and Miller have faced, since neither player played a significant role on their teams until '03. I'd be willing to bet that if you took the 12th region vs 13th region from '03 to the present the 12th region's record would be much better then just a little over .500. I would assume that those years are probably the 12th region top heavy years you are referring too, and that '99-'02 just help give the 13th region a few more wins since at that time the two regions were fairly similiar in terms of talent. So in closing on this topic.... yes the 12th region as of recently has been much better then the 13th region, so please just admit it!

What more can Miller do? Play better defense, be more willing to pass when he isnt hot, and be more of a leader by getting his team motivated (at least the starting 5 and the 6th man off the bench) to be playing HS basketball! Those are 3 very doable things that Miller could do to improve his game and make M'boro a better team as a whole.

 

As far as Miller's moments that you mentioned...... I dont call scoring 30 or 40 points against P'ville, Bell Co, Shelby Valley, and Whitley Co that big of an accomplishment. Let Proffitt carry the primary scoring role for SL and play every minute instead of a 1/2 or less against those teams and he puts up just as good.....no..... probably better numbers.

 

As far as the NL comparison..... Miller may have scored more points against NL, but I'm willing to bet that Proffitt took 1/2 the shots Miller did, and made twice as many assists. Vouch.... Proffitt has more to work with, I give you that. But to say that the only reason Proffitt is able to do what he does is because he has good teammates is ridiculous, just like saying that the only reason Miller is able to do what he does is because he has bad teammates.

 

Years 13th vs 12th

1999/2000 21-14

2000/2001 27-22

2001/2002 23-23

2002/2003 16-29

2003/2004 22-19

2004/2005 20-25

 

Since 2002/2003, the 12th region has won about 55% of the games, so your analogy of 6 out of 10 doesn't even work. More like, if they were to play ten times today, 12th would win half. Ten times tomorrow, 12th would win one more than the 13th. Ten times two days from now, the 12th would only win half again.

 

Therefore, is the talent level in the region that much different??