You may need double check your facts before posting in the future.

 

2) Prior to last year, South Laurel and the old Laurel County school had won exactly one game in the state tournament in 20+ years, so which years did they make these "several good runs".

 

 

I was thinking there was a year in the 80's when Laurel's Boy's team won it all but I wasnt for sure and didnt want to stick my foot in my mouth. Glad someone else had the hard facts.

 

I think that Coach Wright had only one 1 game in the state tourney a few years ago, but they just forgot LC's 1982 state title, won by tourney MVP Paul Andrews on a last second shot from midcourt to win 53-51.

 

Now the Laurel County girls teams won 4 or 5 state titles, but the boys have never matched Coach Roy Bowling's success in the state tourney (1 title under then coach Walter T Hulett).

 

I think that Coach Wright had only one 1 game in the state tourney a few years ago, but they just forgot LC's 1982 state title, won by tourney MVP Paul Andrews on a last second shot from midcourt to win 53-51.

 

I've heard alot of ppl talk about that half court shot...... it was apparently pretty spectacular.

 

I've heard alot of ppl talk about that half court shot...... it was apparently pretty spectacular.

 

Unbelievable. With 2.1 seconds remaining, OT looming, he stole the inbounds pass, dribbled once, and put up a shot from just inside the left the corner of the midcourt stripe which tickled nothing but twine for the win. I have never heard Rupp Arena that silent then explode like that in my life.

So Laurel County only one 1 game in 1982 when they won the state title? I remember this a little differently! I don't remember them getting any byes, just tough games with the likes of Virgie and North Hardin en route to the state title.

 

I believe they won 4 the same as any other state champion.

Who said they only won one game in 1982?

I believe they won 4 the same as any other state champion.

Who said they only won one game in 1982?

 

You did in post #79!

 

Saying that SL or the old Laurel Co. HS has only won 1 game in the state tourney in the last 20 plus years is the same thing. I take it the 1 win you spoke of was the 2001 state tourney win SL had. If that is the case then it would mean that SL won no games in the 1982 state tourney, or that they only won 1 game in 1982 and none in 2001. Both of those are incorrect.

You did!

 

Saying that SL or the old Laurel Co. HS has only won 1 game in the state tourney in the last 20 plus years is the same thing. I take it the 1 win you spoke of was the 2001 state tourney win SL had. If that is the case then it would mean that SL won no games in the 1982 state tourney, or that they only won 1 game in 1982 and none in 2001. Both of those are incorrect.

 

You stated that South had made several good runs in the state tournament while you were in school. Were you in school in 1982? How many years are there between 1982 and 2005? Let me do the math for you, they only won 1 game in 23 years.

Can you comprehend this?

You stated that South had made several good runs in the state tournament while you were in school. Were you in school in 1982? How many years are there between 1982 and 2005? Let me do the math for you, they only won 1 game in 23 years.

Can you comprehend this?

 

I find it so funny how ppl refuse to admit when they have said something wrong on this board, and instead get all defensive and make even more ridiculously funny posts. I believe I, and a few others, are the only ones who do admit when they have made a mistake.

 

I already said that I was wrong when I said "several good runs"...... I should have said one. I said that about 20 posts back.

 

As far as me being in school in 1982.... that has nothing to do with our discussion. If you had said SL only won 1 state tourney game while I was in HS then 1982 wouldnt have mattered..... but we both know you didnt say that. What you said was SL and Laurel Co had only won 1 game in the state tourney in the last 20+ years...... in that case 1982 does matter, irregardless of whether I went to HS then or not.

 

Just admit you were wrong and you forgot about 1982 and dont get so defensive! Gosh.

 

As far as comprehending you...... yes I comprehend you just fine...... of course that is only after someone else pointed out that what you stated was completely incorrect. For that matter you are still wrong and not very good at math. SL and Laurel Co HAD only won 1 state tourney game in 21 years 1983-2004..... if you include 1982 and 2005 however, like you did in the post I have quoted and bolded, then SL and Laurel Co have won 9 state tourney games in the last 23 years including 2 championships. :thumb:

 

Have a nice day!

Wow! This thread sure has strayed! :lol:

First off..... my comparison of Miller and Proffitt to football players was only to prove that statistics, no matter what the sport, really cant be used to compare two individual players when those two players play much different levels of competition.

 

As far as your point that they play in the same region and therefore the same competition.... I must not have been clear enough. You are right they play similiar competition, but ONLY in this region...... not outside of that. While M'boro is scheduling second rate competition so they can get a few W's on the schedule, SL is scheduling not only some of the best teams in the state, but some of the best teams in the nation. Now that doesnt mean SL is on the same level as some of the best teams in the nation, because they arent. Nor does it mean that Proffitt is on the same level as some of the best players in the nation, because he isnt...... but if Proffitt can score in the teens against those teams, its analogous to, if not better than, scoring 35 against Knox Central. When you consider that Proffitt hasnt played more then a 1/2 a game against any team in the 13th region except NL then I think you can see why he doesnt score 30 a game. Also..... I will not fail to mention that Proffitt and Miller have not always played in the same region, and IMO the 12th region as a whole over the last few years, has been a more talented region then the 13th.

 

By the way..... Miller did play very good against NL. Proffitt played equally as good IMO against NL. He didnt score as much as Miller did, but Proffitt did get his own and did alot of other things that a great PG does to get his team the win. I wouldnt expect Proffitt to ever score as much as Miller against NL because #1 it isnt Proffitts role #2 SL is loaded with alot of great scorers and they spread the ball out. I think alot of what Miller did against NL can be contributed to the fact that the NL staff's gameplan was to let Miller get his points but contain him, totally shut down everyone else, and take home the win. They knew Miller cant beat you alone and so do alot of other teams and that is why they play him the way they do. Everyone on here talks about Miller getting double and triple teamed while still scoring all these points..... but the games I have seen he does occasionally draw the double team, but never gets triple teamed. It appears to me that most coaches dont alot as much attention to Miller as some on this board would have us believe. Coaches dont try to totally shut down Miller #1 because you cant and #2 because its pointless when you consider that the rest of his team is horrible. Coaches have no need to focus soley on Miller because as great as he is....... he cant beat a 5 man squad on his own (no player can for that matter), and so most teams are willing to give him his 30 as long as they can contain him somewhat. Miller's 30 points a game arent dangerous to a coach, because his points alone arent enough to beat you, unless someone else plays big as well as Miller. Most coaches know this wont happen because M'boro's squad, with the exception of Miller, isnt very good. If they just simply contain Miller somewhat then they will win the game. Most coaches know this and focus their efforts on playing a COMPLETE defensive game with emphasis on Miller..... they dont just focus soley on Miller by triple teaming him because they know its pointless, he is going to get his points irregardless.

 

About being clutch.... maybe Miller scoring the game winning shot against sub par teams when the outcome of those games mean nothing is clutch to you..... but it isnt to me. Clutch to me means making the big plays in the big games at big times. Proffitt has done that consistently. Now.... maybe if Miller was put on the big stage (like a district championship game, regional championship game, state tourney game, or big time out of state tourney game) then he would perform just as clutch. But who knows cause his team cant get there because their competitive level, as well as the competitive level of those they play, isnt that great.

 

As far as him being ONLY a great shooter..... you are right, he is also a great athlete that can create for himself with his quickness and ball handling. However..... he isnt as good a defensive player as any other HS bball player and he doesnt crash the boards hard. You said my statements were the craziest you had ever read. Well IMO the above bolded statement is the craziest thing I have ever read on this board and it just goes to show you dont know what good defensive basketball is if you think Miller is as good a defensive player as any other HS bball player. There are better defensive bball players on the same team as Miller.

 

Here is an article on Miller.http://www.pinnaclesportsview.com/files/December2005page5.jpg

 

 

Also..... I will not fail to mention that Proffitt and Miller have not always played in the same region, and IMO the 12th region as a whole over the last few years, has been a more talented region then the 13th. -ukbellco14

 

Something to think over. You act as though the 12th has always been superior to the 13th but you are wrong. Since the 99/00 season, the 12th has been only 142-129 against the 13th, with some extremely top heavy seasons in there for some 12th teams.

 

You said that Proffitt did just as good as Miller against NL but Miller scored 15 more points. You brushed this off saying Proffitt did other things when that really isn't fair at all. Scoring is Miller's strong point. It would be like saying Miller may not have been as great a leader during the game but he did score more--taking away from what Proffitt does best. Of course he was able to do other things--he is surrounded by better talent. SL has 5 guys that are great at basketball. They all have great intuition which allows for sneaky cuts and back door plays, both, things that would make Proffitt look good. Miller can't make these kinds of passes or show off those skills of his because his teammates are lost out there.

 

Proffitt has other guys that can shoot the ball effectively and therefore can find himself around the bucket without the ball more often to get the rebound because he isn't shooting. This is opposed to Miller who is the only shooting threat on his team and is very seldom able to show off his rebounding skills due to the fact that he is the one shooting the ball. Do you not think that if he was surrounded by better players, he wouldn't dish the ball for them to have a better shot?? Two years ago when Middlesboro has Bussell and Cowan, Miller was able to play a more well rounded game and now he simply doesn't have that.

 

You've acknowledged that he is a better athlete. You've acknowledged that he is a better 3 point shooter. Statistics show he is one of the best scorers in the state. Statistics also show he can make the 3 more efficiently than nearly everyone else in the state. Statistics show that Miller is one of the best free throw shooters in the state. Contrary to what you say, he is the best defender on his team.Tell me this---what more can Miller do while playing on this Middlesboro team??

 

He doesn't make the schedule but he flourishes when he does get to play against good opponents. He is a go getter. You say he takes ill-advised shots, I say that he knows no one else on the team is capable and wants the rock in his hands. You say Proffitt is a better leader. That may be so. It is easy to lead guys that care about the game, that want to excel. Middlesboro has different guys in and out of there every year, including at the coaching position. He has no where to turn to develop much of a relationship. You say Proffitt has performed well on the big stage. That is very true, no one can take that away from him. Miller has been held back greatly by his team and hasn't that shot. Moments he has had however:

 

-2004/2005 Season-Middlesboro was bounced by Pineville in the first round of districts 80-78 in OT. Miller however set a record with 48 points and hit a 3 point with 3 seconds in regulation to take the game to OT.

 

-2004/2005 Season-Against your Bell County Bobcats, Miller scored 46 points in the most heated rivalry game of the year in front of a sold out crowd.

 

-2004/2005 Season-Again, versus Bell County Miller was double teamed and continued to spread the wealth as Middlesboro ended up winning

"I do agree, the game never should have gotten to that point. Bell didn't want the game enough and Whitaker had them running the double team at Miller when he came across half court, and that just absolutely killed us. You may think it is smart thinking at the time, but they ran the man guarding Mays at Miller everytime. Miller would just skip it across to Mays and he would have a wide open shot at the 3. " -Bellalumni40

 

-2004/2005 Season-Against Shelby Valley Miller made 6 3's and ended up with 37 points.

 

-2004/2005 Season- Against Whitley County 8 of 12 from 3 point land and ended up with 35 points.

By the way, Paul Andrews wan't tourney MVP. I believe it was Todd May from Virgie.

Also..... I will not fail to mention that Proffitt and Miller have not always played in the same region, and IMO the 12th region as a whole over the last few years, has been a more talented region then the 13th. -ukbellco14

 

Something to think over. You act as though the 12th has always been superior to the 13th but you are wrong. Since the 99/00 season, the 12th has been only 142-129 against the 13th, with some extremely top heavy seasons in there for some 12th teams.

 

Tell me this---what more can Miller do while playing on this Middlesboro team??

 

First off.... I would say that the 12th region being right over .500 against the 13th region since '99 goes to prove that the 12th region, at least recently, has been better year in and year out then the 13th region. Therefore I am not wrong! Winning more games then you lose to a specific opponent= superiority to that opponent. If the 12th region wins 6 out of the 10 games they play against the 13th then I think that would mean they are the better region.

 

I'd be curious to know exactly what the 12th region's record against the 13th region is since '03 to the present..... since that is the first that Proffitt and Miller saw action in a varsity HS game and would really give us a better indication of the talent level that Proffitt has played against in the 12th compared to the talent level that Miller has played against in the 13th. The years before '03 really mean nothing in terms of comparing the talent that Proffitt and Miller have faced, since neither player played a significant role on their teams until '03. I'd be willing to bet that if you took the 12th region vs 13th region from '03 to the present the 12th region's record would be much better then just a little over .500. I would assume that those years are probably the 12th region top heavy years you are referring too, and that '99-'02 just help give the 13th region a few more wins since at that time the two regions were fairly similiar in terms of talent. So in closing on this topic.... yes the 12th region as of recently has been much better then the 13th region, so please just admit it!

 

What more can Miller do? Play better defense, be more willing to pass when he isnt hot, and be more of a leader by getting his team motivated (at least the starting 5 and the 6th man off the bench) to be playing HS basketball! Those are 3 very doable things that Miller could do to improve his game and make M'boro a better team as a whole.

 

As far as Miller's moments that you mentioned...... I dont call scoring 30 or 40 points against P'ville, Bell Co, Shelby Valley, and Whitley Co that big of an accomplishment. Let Proffitt carry the primary scoring role for SL and play every minute instead of a 1/2 or less against those teams and he puts up just as good.....no..... probably better numbers.

 

As far as the NL comparison..... Miller may have scored more points against NL, but I'm willing to bet that Proffitt took 1/2 the shots Miller did, and made twice as many assists. Vouch.... Proffitt has more to work with, I give you that. But to say that the only reason Proffitt is able to do what he does is because he has good teammates is ridiculous, just like saying that the only reason Miller is able to do what he does is because he has bad teammates.

I will tell you what Miller can do while playing for Middlesboro - How about playing some defense? Heck it doesn't matter that he scored 34 against North, the guy he guarded scored 24. Kinda of cancels him out, huh?

I will tell you what Miller can do while playing for Middlesboro - How about playing some defense? Heck it doesn't matter that he scored 34 against North, the guy he guarded scored 24. Kinda of cancels him out, huh?

 

One interesting way to look at it!

First off.... I would say that the 12th region being right over .500 against the 13th region since '99 goes to prove that the 12th region, at least recently, has been better year in and year out then the 13th region. Therefore I am not wrong! Winning more games then you lose to a specific opponent= superiority to that opponent. If the 12th region wins 6 out of the 10 games they play against the 13th then I think that would mean they are the better region.

 

I'd be curious to know exactly what the 12th region's record against the 13th region is since '03 to the present..... since that is the first that Proffitt and Miller saw action in a varsity HS game and would really give us a better indication of the talent level that Proffitt has played against in the 12th compared to the talent level that Miller has played against in the 13th. The years before '03 really mean nothing in terms of comparing the talent that Proffitt and Miller have faced, since neither player played a significant role on their teams until '03. I'd be willing to bet that if you took the 12th region vs 13th region from '03 to the present the 12th region's record would be much better then just a little over .500. I would assume that those years are probably the 12th region top heavy years you are referring too, and that '99-'02 just help give the 13th region a few more wins since at that time the two regions were fairly similiar in terms of talent. So in closing on this topic.... yes the 12th region as of recently has been much better then the 13th region, so please just admit it!

 

What more can Miller do? Play better defense, be more willing to pass when he isnt hot, and be more of a leader by getting his team motivated (at least the starting 5 and the 6th man off the bench) to be playing HS basketball! Those are 3 very doable things that Miller could do to improve his game and make M'boro a better team as a whole.

 

As far as Miller's moments that you mentioned...... I dont call scoring 30 or 40 points against P'ville, Bell Co, Shelby Valley, and Whitley Co that big of an accomplishment. Let Proffitt carry the primary scoring role for SL and play every minute instead of a 1/2 or less against those teams and he puts up just as good.....no..... probably better numbers.

 

As far as the NL comparison..... Miller may have scored more points against NL, but I'm willing to bet that Proffitt took 1/2 the shots Miller did, and made twice as many assists. Vouch.... Proffitt has more to work with, I give you that. But to say that the only reason Proffitt is able to do what he does is because he has good teammates is ridiculous, just like saying that the only reason Miller is able to do what he does is because he has bad teammates.

 

 

W/re to your comparison, also appropriate would be to compare strength of schedule, because I'd be willing to bet that Miller has played against much softer competition than Proffitt during their times as varsity players.

One interesting way to look at it!

 

Originally Posted by Les

I will tell you what Miller can do while playing for Middlesboro - How about playing some defense? Heck it doesn't matter that he scored 34 against North, the guy he guarded scored 24. Kinda of cancels him out, huh?

 

 

Mboro played a zone according to NL coach