September 4, 201214 yr It has been a failure. Absolutely no other way to view it. Is it better? That is up for debate as some indicators and segments are better, others are worse. The questions for voters are could it be better and should it be better. I think Clyde has asked several times, "Which indicators are worse?" No one has answered that yet, other than saying gas prices are up. I didn't realize that was an economic indicator, but what the heck. I'll go with it. What other indicators besides the price of gas, are worse?
September 4, 201214 yr I think Clyde has asked several times, "Which indicators are worse?" No one has answered that yet, other than saying gas prices are up. I didn't realize that was an economic indicator, but what the heck. I'll go with it. What other indicators besides the price of gas, are worse? Gas was brought up as one of the top items along with unemployment that people are aware of. Here are some other items as near as I could find. Item Jan 2009 Most recent Inflation .03 1.41 Unemploy 7.8 8.3 Debt 10.6T 15.9T CPI 211.14 229.10 Misery Index 7.83 9.71 GDP 13.89 15.72 All are worse except for GDP
September 4, 201214 yr A Democrat Governor and possible 2016 candidate admits we're not better off than we were 4 years ago. O?Malley: We?re Not Better Off Now - NationalJournal.com I'm sure he was taken to the woodshed.
September 4, 201214 yr What other indicators besides the price of gas, are worse? Slowest - by far - recovery of any recession since WWII. Chart Of The Day: The Scariest Jobs Chart Ever - Business Insider Lowest Labor Force Participation Rate ever since statistics kept. US Labor Force Participation Rate Longest Period High Unemployment since Great Depression CBO: Longest Period of High Unemployment Since Great Depression - US News and World Report Dramatically lower household net worth. America's Vanishing Household Wealth - Businessweek Those unemployed over 27 weeks is now the majority of those unemployed. This was not the case in previous recessions. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ykzzbZEx6nM/T1v0kiM90rI/AAAAAAAAMY0/0e0tIVVQ8So/s1600/UnemployDurationFeb2012.jpg According to BLS's own recent data over 50% of those unemployed have been so for over 15 weeks (i.e. over 3 months). Table A-12. Unemployed persons by duration of unemployment For the first time every since Social Security started receipts have gone down and not up. And this is not due to the 2% reduction as that is made for with (what else) borrowed monies. Receipts recoverd in 2011 after going down consecutively in 2008, 2009 and 2010. But they are still below 2007 and 2008 levels. This means in non-inflation adjusted dollars the entire US population is making less earned income. Historical Tables | The White House
September 4, 201214 yr A Democrat Governor and possible 2016 candidate admits we're not better off than we were 4 years ago. O?Malley: We?re Not Better Off Now - NationalJournal.com I'm sure he was taken to the woodshed. That wasn't exactly a pro-Bush response the guy gave.
September 4, 201214 yr So has the economy actually improved or has it been a failure?Last 3 months of 2008 job losses were about 2M total. In the last 29 months private sector jobs have increased by about 4M. Is that an improvement? Give us your answer.
September 4, 201214 yr Give us your answer. I'm not sure how anyone can say it hasn't improved from where it was at the beginning of his tenure. It's a bad question though. I heard this analogy this morning. The house was on fire. Fire department showed up and put the fire out. Would we ask if the house was in better shape than before the fire? To me the decision is like investing in a stock. It's all about where the stock is now and what it's future seems to be. SBUX stock sucked for quite a while after a lot of promise. If you held onto it it did get better but you had to have patience. Do I have patience and believe in the direction or do I cash out and put my money in another stock who hasn't really given me any good indicators as to the future business plans? Not an easy call.
September 4, 201214 yr This guy says to not blame either party. Blame the banks. 1 Reason the Recovery Is So Slow
September 4, 201214 yr That wasn't exactly a pro-Bush response the guy gave. Wasn't exactly a pro-Obama response either. Bottom line, leaders lead and after 4 years the independants are not buying the it's Bush's fault excuse. What worked on them in 2008 will not work in 2012. Whether that is enough to turn the tide towards Romney is something we'll find out in about 60 days.
September 4, 201214 yr This guy says to not blame either party. Blame the banks. 1 Reason the Recovery Is So Slow When you are borrow (from the Fed) money at nothing you can make money without lending it out. And during the 2010 stock market bounce the banks were probably borrowing at almost zero and making 20%. The stimulus and bail-outs were payoffs. And banks got deals from the government to help the write downs of the 'Toxic Assets' (the TA of TARP). If you do not have a 700 credit score I am not sure if you can get a loan today.
September 4, 201214 yr I'm not sure how anyone can say it hasn't improved from where it was at the beginning of his tenure. It's a bad question though. I heard this analogy this morning. The house was on fire. Fire department showed up and put the fire out. Would we ask if the house was in better shape than before the fire? To me the decision is like investing in a stock. It's all about where the stock is now and what it's future seems to be. SBUX stock sucked for quite a while after a lot of promise. If you held onto it it did get better but you had to have patience. Do I have patience and believe in the direction or do I cash out and put my money in another stock who hasn't really given me any good indicators as to the future business plans? Not an easy call. Unemployment rate up and that doesn't even take into account the few million who got onto disability instead of unemployment Gasoline costs up. Inflation up. Debt up. Misery index up There's a start.
September 4, 201214 yr Unemployment rate up and that doesn't even take into account the few million who got onto disability instead of unemployment Gasoline costs up. Inflation up. Debt up. Misery index up There's a start. Let's be clear. No one is saying we're home free or anywhere near. The debate is where we were vs where we are now. GDP in 4th qtr 2008 declined by an annualized rate of 8.9% which was the worst since 1958. Latest GDP Report Shows U.S. Recession Was Deeper and Recovery More Anemic Than Previously Thought Lost 3M jobs in 3 in 5 months. It was in a free fall. It's not today so, by definition, it is better with a lot of work to do ahead.
September 4, 201214 yr 'Forwa..'...whoa.... Manufacturing slumps again in August - Sep. 4, 2012 "Manufacturing activity in the U.S. slumped again in August, contracting for the third straight month. " Is it where we are vs. 4 years ago or where we are headed? Another data point that says the recovery has either stalled badly or is regressing.
September 4, 201214 yr Let's be clear. No one is saying we're home free or anywhere near. The debate is where we were vs where we are now. GDP in 4th qtr 2008 declined by an annualized rate of 8.9% which was the worst since 1958. Latest GDP Report Shows U.S. Recession Was Deeper and Recovery More Anemic Than Previously Thought Lost 3M jobs in 3 in 5 months. It was in a free fall. It's not today so, by definition, it is better with a lot of work to do ahead. You're looking at direction vs a particular point. It is not better at this particular point in time. The challenge is for Obama to hammer the direction despite how people are feeling at this particular point in time. Romney will be hammering home the point we're at vs the movement. Obama's problem as I've stated before is that he owns this economy. After 4 years people don't want to hear a leader blame it on someone else or say it could have been worse.
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