Eddie Mathews

.271 AVG .378 OBP .509 SLG 512 HR 1,453 RBI 1,509 RUNS 68 SB

 

Brooks Robinson

.267 AVG .325 OBP .401 SLG 268 HR 1,357 RBI 1,232 RUNS 28 SB

 

George Brett

.305 AVG .373 OBP .487 SLG 317 HR 1,595 RBI 1,583 RUNS 201 SB

 

Scott Rolen

.281 AVG .365 OBP .491 SLG 313 HR 1,275 RBI 1,202 RUNS 117 SB

 

He compares pretty good to these HOFers

 

Would you consider these two third basemen to have Hall of Fame worthy numbers? Take a look at them and tell me and I'll tell you who they are.

 

Scott Rolen

.281 AVG .365 OBP .491 SLG 313 HR 1,275 RBI 1,202 RUNS 117 SB

 

Player 1

.285 AVG .343 OBP .500 SLG 328 HR 1,189 RBI 932 RUNS 21 SB

 

Player 2

.278 AVG .330 OBP .470 SLG 328 HR 1,175 RBI 1,054 RUNS 115 SB

That's really irrelevant IMO. Maybe it was a bad crop of 3rd basemen.

 

If you consider him truly elite you vote for him. I never had that gut feel. Really, really good but not elite.

 

 

But if there in only 10 third basemen in the hall, and he compares favorably to six it so out of the ten, does it matter? I guess if you neutralize his stats for the era it might, but then you've got to do that for the guys from the thirties as well. Just thinking out loud.

But if there in only 10 third basemen in the hall, and he compares favorably to six it so out of the ten, does it matter? I guess if you neutralize his stats for the era it might, but then you've got to do that for the guys from the thirties as well. Just thinking out loud.

 

 

Would you vote for the other two players that I listed based on their numbers? They are very close to Rolen as well.

But if there in only 10 third basemen in the hall, and he compares favorably to six it so out of the ten, does it matter? I guess if you neutralize his stats for the era it might, but then you've got to do that for the guys from the thirties as well. Just thinking out loud.

 

Compares how? That's the challenge when you're using players from previous eras.

 

It's why I stick with their own era. Comparing a 2B today to Lou Whitaker or Joe Morgan or Bill Maz is just a WAG.

 

Even then when you say he was the best of his own era you still have to challenge that with "was he elite overall?"

That's a tough call. Rookie of the year. 8 Gold Gloves. 7 All-Star Games. 1 Silver Slugger Award. But only one finish above 20 in MVP voting.

Would you consider these two third basemen to have Hall of Fame worthy numbers? Take a look at them and tell me and I'll tell you who they are.

 

Scott Rolen

.281 AVG .365 OBP .491 SLG 313 HR 1,275 RBI 1,202 RUNS 117 SB

 

Player 1

.285 AVG .343 OBP .500 SLG 328 HR 1,189 RBI 932 RUNS 21 SB

 

Player 2

.278 AVG .330 OBP .470 SLG 328 HR 1,175 RBI 1,054 RUNS 115 SB

Were they either one defensively as good as Rolen? If one was a RedSox player then it is an automatic no.

 

I'm saying that Rolen is a dead lock for HOF just that his body of work is comparable to the other HOF third basemen.

 

Looking at your numbers they are comparable to Rolens so back to what kind of D did they play? Were they a leader on their ballclub? Did they juice? Were they a winner? As you know it's more than just numbers.

That's really irrelevant IMO. Maybe it was a bad crop of 3rd basemen.

 

If you consider him truly elite you vote for him. I never had that gut feel. Really, really good but not elite.

 

I was just making a statement from the previous post. But I do consider Rolen an elite defensive 3rd baseman and his offensivE stats are good as well.

Compares how? That's the challenge when you're using players from previous eras.

 

It's why I stick with their own era. Comparing a 2B today to Lou Whitaker or Joe Morgan or Bill Maz is just a WAG.

 

Even then when you say he was the best of his own era you still have to challenge that with "was he elite overall?"

Nope he wasn't elite, if that is your criteria then a lot of guys gotta come out. I agree with you they should be elite, but that is not how it's determined.

Were they either one defensively as good as Rolen? If one was a RedSox player then it is an automatic no.

 

I'm saying that Rolen is a dead lock for HOF just that his body of work is comparable to the other HOF third basemen.

 

Looking at your numbers they are comparable to Rolens so back to what kind of D did they play? Were they a leader on their ballclub? Did they juice? Were they a winner? As you know it's more than just numbers.

 

Here are the same numbers with the player's names:

 

Scott Rolen

.281 AVG .365 OBP .491 SLG 313 HR 1,275 RBI 1,202 RUNS 117 SB

 

Aramis Ramirez

.285 AVG .343 OBP .500 SLG 328 HR 1,189 RBI 932 RUNS 21 SB

 

Adrian Beltre

.278 AVG .330 OBP .470 SLG 328 HR 1,175 RBI 1,054 RUNS 115 SB

 

Now, with that you know their names do you think that they are Hall of Famers? Both are still active and if Rolen hangs it up after this season both will likely finish with more more numbers. Beltre in particular is still producing at a high level--he has won 3 Gold Gloves himself and even finished second in MVP voting. So if you vote for Rolen would you vote for them?

Here are the same numbers with the player's names:

 

Scott Rolen

.281 AVG .365 OBP .491 SLG 313 HR 1,275 RBI 1,202 RUNS 117 SB

 

Aramis Ramirez

.285 AVG .343 OBP .500 SLG 328 HR 1,189 RBI 932 RUNS 21 SB

 

Adrian Beltre

.278 AVG .330 OBP .470 SLG 328 HR 1,175 RBI 1,054 RUNS 115 SB

 

Now, with that you know their names do you think that they are Hall of Famers? Both are still active and if Rolen hangs it up after this season both will likely finish with more more numbers. Beltre in particular is still producing at a high level--he has won 3 Gold Gloves himself and even finished second in MVP voting. So if you vote for Rolen would you vote for them?

 

Neither one is close to Rolen defensively. I wouldn't vote for either as it stands.

Neither one is close to Rolen defensively. I wouldn't vote for either as it stands.

 

So you're giving Rolen the nod simply based on defense? Beltre is very close to Rolen defensively. He has 3 Gold Gloves of his own, including one last season. Why should Rolen's advantage defensively override both of the other players offensive advantages. If both players play a couple of more seasons their offensive numbers will be significantly better than Rolen's.

So you're giving Rolen the nod simply based on defense? Beltre is very close to Rolen defensively. He has 3 Gold Gloves of his own, including one last season. Why should Rolen's advantage defensively override both of the other players offensive advantages. If both players play a couple of more seasons their offensive numbers will be significantly better than Rolen's.

 

Rolen has eight gold gloves. That's more than double Beltre, and is an elite defender, with good offensive stats. I don't think Beltre can make a car yet, that's what I said. Give him3-4 more years, and potentially yes.

Again, if you have to build and make cases for guys to be inducted in to the HOF, they are not HOF caliber players. All I need to know is that the highest Rolen ever finished in an MVP race was 4th... that happened once. Two or three other occasions he was like in the top 25 of MVP voting. Though MVP voting is not the golden barometer, we are essentially debating over a guy who was seldomly considered a top 25 player (in his respective league).

Here is some perspective. Take a look at this player compared to Rolen:

 

Scott Rolen

.281 AVG .365 OBP .491 SLG 313 HR 1,275 RBI 1,202 RUNS 117 SB 2,052 HITS

 

????????

.296 AVG .384 OBP .436 SLG 162 HR 1,071 RBI 1,124 RUNS 98 SB 2,182 HITS

Also, 12 Gold Gloves. Won an MVP award and 9 times in top 25 in MVP voting including 2nd, 4th and 8th. 2 World Series winners.

 

The player ???????? got more than 10% of the vote for the Hall twice, never received more than 11% and dropped off the ballot after 9 years.

Edited August 7, 201214 yr by Voice of Reason

Here is another one to compare:

 

Scott Rolen

.281 AVG .365 OBP .491 SLG 313 HR 1,275 RBI 1,202 RUNS 117 SB 2,052 HITS

 

???? #2

.294 AVG .329 OBP .446 SLG 272 HR 1,308 RBI 1,143 RUNS 83 SB 2,599 HITS

MVP Finishes 1, 2, 6, 6, 6, 11, 14, 20, 25. 4 Gold Gloves. Played in 5 World Series with one win. Highest Hall vote percent was 42.6.

 

If I kept looking, I have little doubt that I can find 10 players with comparable stats to Rolen who never received more than 50% of the vote for the Hall.