It's an interesting debate, do you compare him to "batters" or "third basemen"?

 

You have to consider both, but I think the latter is EXTREMELY important to consider. Just look at how middle infielders were neglected for a huge chunk of the Hall's history.

Not before Davey Concepcion

I don't know.....he may be a top 5 third baseman of all time. Right now, he's 4th in RBI's, and 4th in HR's, and he might be third by years end. Throw in 8 gold gloves, and he stacks up very well. It's amazing how few third basemen are in the Hall.

You beat me to this point.

Is he a transcendant player, No. Is he a top 10 3B of All-Time, Yes. If your top 10 at any position IMO you deserve to be in.

 

Only 10 3B's in HOF.

4 out of 10 batted under .300 (Schmidt .267, Eddie Matthews .271 and Brooks Robinson .267 are 3 of them)

Rolen will have more HR's than all but 2 of the HOF 3B's

He will be no worse than 5th in RBI compared to current 3B HOFers

If you want to just compare offensive numbers to another great HOF third baseman try this. Robinson did however have 16 gold gloves compared to 7 for Rolen and 15 All-star selections to 7 for Rolen.

 

Scott Rolen .281 avg. 313 HRs 1275 RBIs

Brooks Robinson .267 avg. 268 HRs 1357 RBIs

Not before Davey Concepcion

 

Davey does belong in imo.

Not even close, especially if he is done after this year. 2050 hits, 313 HRs, 1275 RBI as of right now. No MVPs, Never led the league in ANY major offensive category. Only hit better than .300 twice. Hasn't had a very good year since 2006 If you look at Baseball-reference.com, only 1 of the 10 players he is most similar to is in the hall of fame, Tony Perez ( and he was a borderline HOFer). You could make the argument that he was the best third basemen of his generation but no way is he top 5 ever.....Schmidt, Brett, Chipper, Brooks Robinson, Boggs and Eddie Matthews are my top 6.... But all of those guys put up much bigger numbers. You also can't say he was ever one of the top 4 or 5 players in any one year of his era. Nice player, but not Hall of Fame.

Eddie Mathews

.271 AVG .378 OBP .509 SLG 512 HR 1,453 RBI 1,509 RUNS 68 SB

 

Brooks Robinson

.267 AVG .325 OBP .401 SLG 268 HR 1,357 RBI 1,232 RUNS 28 SB

 

George Brett

.305 AVG .373 OBP .487 SLG 317 HR 1,595 RBI 1,583 RUNS 201 SB

 

Scott Rolen

.281 AVG .365 OBP .491 SLG 313 HR 1,275 RBI 1,202 RUNS 117 SB

 

He compares pretty good to these HOFers

Eddie Mathews

.271 AVG .378 OBP .509 SLG 512 HR 1,453 RBI 1,509 RUNS 68 SB

 

Brooks Robinson

.267 AVG .325 OBP .401 SLG 268 HR 1,357 RBI 1,232 RUNS 28 SB

 

George Brett

.305 AVG .373 OBP .487 SLG 317 HR 1,595 RBI 1,583 RUNS 201 SB

 

Scott Rolen

.281 AVG .365 OBP .491 SLG 313 HR 1,275 RBI 1,202 RUNS 117 SB

 

He compares pretty good to these HOFers

 

Too many differences in the eras.

 

That's why I like the "elite of the elite" against contemporaries.

 

Too many "really good" vs "elite" players getting in.

My first thought was ... really? Does anyone think he could get in? But after reading the thread and thinking about it a little, I believe there is a chance - a Ron Santo type of chance. But I am not sure there will be anywhere near the same outcry for Rolen that there has been for Cubbie Santo over the years.

He may be the best defensive 3rd baseman of all time. if not then one of the best. Injuries has kept his numbers down. He is close to me.

Eddie Mathews

.271 AVG .378 OBP .509 SLG 512 HR 1,453 RBI 1,509 RUNS 68 SB

 

Brooks Robinson

.267 AVG .325 OBP .401 SLG 268 HR 1,357 RBI 1,232 RUNS 28 SB

 

George Brett

.305 AVG .373 OBP .487 SLG 317 HR 1,595 RBI 1,583 RUNS 201 SB

 

Scott Rolen

.281 AVG .365 OBP .491 SLG 313 HR 1,275 RBI 1,202 RUNS 117 SB

 

He compares pretty good to these HOFers

 

I don't think so. Brett was arguably the best hitter of his era, and had over 3100 hits (which gets you in the hall of fame unless you bet on baseball). Eddie Matthews hit over 500 home runs, another automatic hall of fame number ( unless you used 'roids). Brooks Robinson won twice as many gold gloves and is considered the best defensive 3rd basemen of all time, plus will end up with at least 30% more hits than Rolen. Rolen has no "magic" career numbers that automatically get you in, and will never be remembered as the best defensive 3rd basemen of his era the way Schmidt and Robinson are (even though he probably is). I see Rolen as a lot like Greg Nettles. Great defender, had some nice years at the plate, but didn't do enough for long enough to be a Hall of Famer.

I don't think so. Brett was arguably the best hitter of his era, and had over 3100 hits (which gets you in the hall of fame unless you bet on baseball). Eddie Matthews hit over 500 home runs, another automatic hall of fame number ( unless you used 'roids). Brooks Robinson won twice as many gold gloves and is considered the best defensive 3rd basemen of all time, plus will end up with at least 30% more hits than Rolen. Rolen has no "magic" career numbers that automatically get you in, and will never be remembered as the best defensive 3rd basemen of his era the way Schmidt and Robinson are (even though he probably is). I see Rolen as a lot like Greg Nettles. Great defender, had some nice years at the plate, but didn't do enough for long enough to be a Hall of Famer.

I get what your saying. But while he doesn't have the ONE number or stat he is a very well rounded player, he does compare to other HOF 3Bs across the range of stats.

 

BTW I'm not a Rolen fan of any kind, just looked at his accomplishments and compared them to others at third already in the Hall.

Too many differences in the eras.

This is one I guess I have thought a lot about recently. I think Baseball more than any other major sport does cross eras. Williams, Mantle, Mays, Aaron, Robinson, Dimagio would all hit against todays pitchers. A 95 MPH fastball in the 50's 60's or 70's would still be a 95 MPH fastball today.

 

That's why I like the "elite of the elite" against contemporaries.

Who of his contemporaries is a better third baseman, maybe Chipper. But Chipper no where near as good a defender and batting numbers are comparable.

 

Too many "really good" vs "elite" players getting in.

I agree too many getting in. I think HOF should be harder, but the way it is IMO Rolen deserves to get in. I don't think he will, (outside of being WS MVP this year), he's not a flashy enough player for the media to vote him in.

My first thought was ... really? Does anyone think he could get in? But after reading the thread and thinking about it a little, I believe there is a chance - a Ron Santo type of chance. But I am not sure there will be anywhere near the same outcry for Rolen that there has been for Cubbie Santo over the years.

 

I think Rolen will be a great case. I think he starts off with 20-30% of the vote, and depending what they decide to do with 'roiders, he's got a decent shot. I think he compares with the guys listed in this thread, so he's got a legitimate chance. A lot of people forget just how good Rolen was in the early and middle part of his career in Philly and St. Louis.

I think Rolen will be a great case. I think he starts off with 20-30% of the vote, and depending what they decide to do with 'roiders, he's got a decent shot. I think he compares with the guys listed in this thread, so he's got a legitimate chance. A lot of people forget just how good Rolen was in the early and middle part of his career in Philly and St. Louis.

 

He was the best 3rd baseman for several years.

He was the best 3rd baseman for several years.

 

That's really irrelevant IMO. Maybe it was a bad crop of 3rd basemen.

 

If you consider him truly elite you vote for him. I never had that gut feel. Really, really good but not elite.