One more dose of perspective and then I will move on ...

 

Following up on my comment that I could find at least ten players better than Rolen who didn't get 50% of the vote. Here is a list of players not in the Hall, the majority of whom I consider more Hall worthy than Rolen. The vote totals on some of these great players is eye opening. Almost all these players can make an argument that they should be in the Hall before Rolen:

 

Harold Baines, Dave Parker, Edgar Martinez, Dale Murphy, Juan Gonzalez, Al Oliver, Craig Nettles, Darrell Evans, Fred McGriff, Larry Walker, Vada Pinson, Dwight Evans, Jeff Bagwell, Tim Raines.

 

There are 14 plus the two players above. IMO Rolen needs a lot more to make the Hall and his body is not going to allow him to get there.

Good career, but not HOF worthy IMO.

Solid player with very good numbers but not Hall of Fame numbers.

I'll share my opinion in a little while, but care to expand on your answer?

 

So we're on page 3 with arguments both for and against, what is your opinion?

One more dose of perspective and then I will move on ...

 

Following up on my comment that I could find at least ten players better than Rolen who didn't get 50% of the vote. Here is a list of players not in the Hall, the majority of whom I consider more Hall worthy than Rolen. The vote totals on some of these great players is eye opening. Almost all these players can make an argument that they should be in the Hall before Rolen:

 

Harold Baines, Dave Parker, Edgar Martinez, Dale Murphy, Juan Gonzalez, Al Oliver, Craig Nettles, Darrell Evans, Fred McGriff, Larry Walker, Vada Pinson, Dwight Evans, Jeff Bagwell, Tim Raines.

 

There are 14 plus the two players above. IMO Rolen needs a lot more to make the Hall and his body is not going to allow him to get there.

 

There are obviously different standards for different positions (at least that seems to be the case). None of those played 3b other than Nettles.

Here is some perspective. Take a look at this player compared to Rolen:

 

Scott Rolen

.281 AVG .365 OBP .491 SLG 313 HR 1,275 RBI 1,202 RUNS 117 SB 2,052 HITS

 

????????

.296 AVG .384 OBP .436 SLG 162 HR 1,071 RBI 1,124 RUNS 98 SB 2,182 HITS

Also, 12 Gold Gloves. Won an MVP award and 9 times in top 25 in MVP voting including 2nd, 4th and 8th. 2 World Series winners.

 

The player ???????? got more than 10% of the vote for the Hall twice, never received more than 11% and dropped off the ballot after 9 years.

 

 

First basemen require much larger offensive stats. Hernandez and Garvey both aren't HOF IMO. Again, 3b is a different. That's traditionally been how voting goes. One thing is for sure, the next few years with the 'roiders, and guys like Rolen make it interesting.

Finally able to get back to this....I'm with the majority in that I feel it's a very close call, but at the end of the day he's a no to me. Never was a "star", but was incredibly consistent and solid his entire career (until recently). His career #'s when compared to other Third Baseman would suggest he deserves to be in, but I don't think it'll be enough.

 

A couple points:

 

He's had a better career than a few 3B that have made it, most notably Santo and Brooks Robinson.

 

He's the best (arguably) defensive 3B in the history of the game.

 

You're out of your mind if you think Adrian Beltre is even close to the defensive player Rolen has been his entire career.

Not before Davey Concepcion

 

One of those odd times we are in agreement. :lol:

Finally able to get back to this....I'm with the majority in that I feel it's a very close call, but at the end of the day he's a no to me. Never was a "star", but was incredibly consistent and solid his entire career (until recently). His career #'s when compared to other Third Baseman would suggest he deserves to be in, but I don't think it'll be enough.

 

A couple points:

 

He's had a better career than a few 3B that have made it, most notably Santo and Brooks Robinson.

 

He's the best (arguably) defensive 3B in the history of the game.

 

You're out of your mind if you think Adrian Beltre is even close to the defensive player Rolen has been his entire career.

 

Not even close? I didn't say he was good but to say he is not even close is simply not accurate. The defensive metrics say otherwise. He's very close in fielding percentage, range factor and runs above average. It isn't like he won a gold glove once when he was having a big offensive year. He's won 3 of them. And if he has a couple of years around the production level he has had this season he will be way ahead on most bulk numbers offensively as well. Certainly far enough ahead to say that his offense should offset Rolen's defensive advantage. For what it is worth I don't think either one should be in.

There are obviously different standards for different positions (at least that seems to be the case). None of those played 3b other than Nettles.

 

I agree with you on the different standards for different positions but I don't consider 3B to be a position that gets special consideration. I would lump 3B in with the offensive positions (OF, 1B and 3B). 1B would require a little more offense than the others and 3B just a shade less offense. But 3B gets no where near the special consideration that SS, 2B and C. A 3B needs top tier offensive numbers to get in.

 

Also, Darrell Evans played a lot of 3B until later in his career. Almost 2/3rd of his career games were at 3B. Evans has 100 more HR, 100 more RBI and 100 more Runs than Rolen. He lasted 1 year on the HOF ballot and got 1.7% of the vote.

 

If you want another 3B to look at, check out Ken Boyer. Pretty close to Rolen in numbers. Peaked out at 25.5% of the vote.

 

I am not saying Rolen has no chance. But it is a real long shot IMO. Like I said above - he has a Ron Santo chance of getting in and it may take the Veteran's Committee for Rolen to make it.

Edited August 7, 201214 yr by Voice of Reason

 

He's had a better career than a few 3B that have made it, most notably Santo and Brooks Robinson.

 

He's the best (arguably) defensive 3B in the history of the game.

 

.

 

I'll give you Ron Santo, but no way he had a better career than Brooks Robinson. Robinson was a consistent, good hitter (not great) and was the best defensive 3rd basemen for most of his 20 year career.

 

Defensively, Rolen is at best number 3 defensively. Mike Schmidt was better, hands down. I am Phillies fan, so I watched Schmidt every day and got to see Rolen for his entire Phillies career. I'd also say Robinson was better defensively.

 

Who of his contemporaries is a better third baseman, maybe Chipper. But Chipper no where near as good a defender and batting numbers are comparable.

 

In no way are the batting stats comparable.

In no way are the batting stats comparable.

 

Maybe he was talking about as a third baseman? Larry has spent a lot of time at other positions. Here are their numbers at third base only:

 

Larry Jones

 

[table]

[thead][tr][th]I[/th][th]Split[/th][th]G[/th][th]GS[/th][th]PA[/th][th]AB[/th][th]R[/th][th]H[/th][th]2B[/th][th]3B[/th][th]HR[/th][th]RBI[/th][th]SB[/th][th]CS[/th][th]BB[/th][th]SO[/th][th]BA[/th][th]OBP[/th][th]SLG[/th][th]OPS[/th][th]TB[/th][th]GDP[/th][th]HBP[/th][th]SH[/th][th]SF[/th][th]IBB[/th][th]ROE[/th][th]BAbip[/th][th]tOPS+[/th][/tr][/thead]

[tr][td][/td][td]as 3B[/td][td]1944[/td][td][/td][td]8487[/td][td]7195[/td][td]1347[/td][td]2204[/td][td]450[/td][td]34[/td][td]385[/td][td]1327[/td][td]127[/td][td]42[/td][td]1195[/td][td]1100[/td][td].306[/td][td].402[/td][td].539[/td][td].941[/td][td]3877[/td][td]205[/td][td]12[/td][td]2[/td][td]83[/td][td]129[/td][td]98[/td][td].314[/td][td]101[/td][/tr]

[/table]

 

 

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table

Generated 8/8/2012.

 

Scott Rolen

 

[table]

[thead][tr][th]I[/th][th]Split[/th][th]G[/th][th]GS[/th][th]PA[/th][th]AB[/th][th]R[/th][th]H[/th][th]2B[/th][th]3B[/th][th]HR[/th][th]RBI[/th][th]SB[/th][th]CS[/th][th]BB[/th][th]SO[/th][th]BA[/th][th]OBP[/th][th]SLG[/th][th]OPS[/th][th]TB[/th][th]GDP[/th][th]HBP[/th][th]SH[/th][th]SF[/th][th]IBB[/th][th]ROE[/th][th]BAbip[/th][th]tOPS+[/th][/tr][/thead]

[tr][td][/td][td]as 3B[/td][td]1982[/td][td][/td][td]8388[/td][td]7281[/td][td]1203[/td][td]2044[/td][td]509[/td][td]43[/td][td]309[/td][td]1267[/td][td]115[/td][td]46[/td][td]888[/td][td]1388[/td][td].281[/td][td].365[/td][td].490[/td][td].854[/td][td]3566[/td][td]147[/td][td]126[/td][td]1[/td][td]92[/td][td]57[/td][td]67[/td][td].306[/td][td]100[/td][/tr]

[/table]

 

 

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table

Generated 8/8/2012.

 

Larry still has better numbers but the difference isn't as great.

^ That explains it.

 

Maybe he was talking about as a third baseman? Larry has spent a lot of time at other positions. Here are their numbers at third base only:

 

Larry Jones

 

[table]

[thead][tr][th]I[/th][th]Split[/th][th]G[/th][th]GS[/th][th]PA[/th][th]AB[/th][th]R[/th][th]H[/th][th]2B[/th][th]3B[/th][th]HR[/th][th]RBI[/th][th]SB[/th][th]CS[/th][th]BB[/th][th]SO[/th][th]BA[/th][th]OBP[/th][th]SLG[/th][th]OPS[/th][th]TB[/th][th]GDP[/th][th]HBP[/th][th]SH[/th][th]SF[/th][th]IBB[/th][th]ROE[/th][th]BAbip[/th][th]tOPS+[/th][/tr][/thead]

[tr][td][/td][td]as 3B[/td][td]1944[/td][td][/td][td]8487[/td][td]7195[/td][td]1347[/td][td]2204[/td][td]450[/td][td]34[/td][td]385[/td][td]1327[/td][td]127[/td][td]42[/td][td]1195[/td][td]1100[/td][td].306[/td][td].402[/td][td].539[/td][td].941[/td][td]3877[/td][td]205[/td][td]12[/td][td]2[/td][td]83[/td][td]129[/td][td]98[/td][td].314[/td][td]101[/td][/tr]

[/table]

 

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table

Generated 8/8/2012.

 

Scott Rolen

 

[table]

[thead][tr][th]I[/th][th]Split[/th][th]G[/th][th]GS[/th][th]PA[/th][th]AB[/th][th]R[/th][th]H[/th][th]2B[/th][th]3B[/th][th]HR[/th][th]RBI[/th][th]SB[/th][th]CS[/th][th]BB[/th][th]SO[/th][th]BA[/th][th]OBP[/th][th]SLG[/th][th]OPS[/th][th]TB[/th][th]GDP[/th][th]HBP[/th][th]SH[/th][th]SF[/th][th]IBB[/th][th]ROE[/th][th]BAbip[/th][th]tOPS+[/th][/tr][/thead]

[tr][td][/td][td]as 3B[/td][td]1982[/td][td][/td][td]8388[/td][td]7281[/td][td]1203[/td][td]2044[/td][td]509[/td][td]43[/td][td]309[/td][td]1267[/td][td]115[/td][td]46[/td][td]888[/td][td]1388[/td][td].281[/td][td].365[/td][td].490[/td][td].854[/td][td]3566[/td][td]147[/td][td]126[/td][td]1[/td][td]92[/td][td]57[/td][td]67[/td][td].306[/td][td]100[/td][/tr]

[/table]

 

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table

Generated 8/8/2012.

 

Larry still has better numbers but the difference isn't as great.

 

2 1/2 seasons out of 19 isn't a lot. 1955 games at 3B, 357 in the OF, 49 at SS.