Wood was not going to get the Reds into the playoffs. That's where we're at now. Trying to get in.

He had the same stuff in 2010 that he had in 2011. The league simply figured him out. It happens all the time.

 

By your logic, Madison Bumgarner and Tim Lincecum have been drastically overworked his first two years in the league. They seem to be doing ok.

Quit assuming you know what my point is.

 

Every pitcher is different, and some handle the workload better than others. Wood is a different type of pitcher than those two guys. They really aren't valid comparisons.

I guess we can reasonably assume that Voice of Reason and Keith Law aren't the same person ... :lol:

 

No they aren't ... Keith Law is the Voice of Delusion.

No they aren't ... Keith Law is the Voice of Delusion.

You're entitled to your opinion ...

I'm not overly thrilled with either of the 2 trades the Reds have made, but I'm not upset either. I do like how they are trying to make moves to win now. Seems the Reds have liked Marshall since Griffey was here. Weren't they rumored in a swap a few times?

 

I would still like to see Cordero back and Marshall set him up or even spot him at times.

No way I want Cordero back,Bill Bray is the setup man with a dual closer role for Marshall and Masset.

You're entitled to your opinion ...

 

If Dusty Baker manages his pitchers perfectly for the next 15 years, we will still hear people like Keith Law saying Dusty doesn't know how to manage a staff.

 

As to the Travis Wood overuse comment by Law, he needs to look at how many innings Wood pitched in 2009.

If Dusty Baker manages his pitchers perfectly for the next 15 years, we will still hear people like Keith Law saying Dusty doesn't know how to manage a staff.

That's his history, like it or not. You can choose to ignore it, but the evidence is there.

 

As to the Travis Wood overuse comment by Law, he needs to look at how many innings Wood pitched in 2009.

That was Law's point exactly ... Wood threw 167 innings in 2009, then made a big jump to 205 (counting the playoffs) in 2010 at age 23. That is the reason you see some teams choose to limit the innings of some of their prized young pitchers.

That's his history, like it or not. You can choose to ignore it, but the evidence is there.

 

That was Law's point exactly ... Wood threw 167 innings in 2009, then made a big jump to 205 (counting the playoffs) in 2010 at age 23. That is the reason you see some teams choose to limit the innings of some of their prized young pitchers.

 

And that is my point. There is nothing wrong with that jump in innings. If Wood threw 120 innings in 2009, then 200 innings in 2010 would be an issue. There are many other young pitchers with bigger inning increases than that, including Matt Latos, Madison Bumgardner, Brandon Beachy, David Price ...

Quit assuming you know what my point is.

 

Every pitcher is different, and some handle the workload better than others. Wood is a different type of pitcher than those two guys. They really aren't valid comparisons.

 

That's exactly the point you were trying to make so I'm not assuming anything. You were trying to say Dusty ruined Travis Wood. I clearly showed two pitchers who were overworked and are fine. You are right, some pitchers handle workloads better than others. Is that Dusty Baker's fault? Not at all. If Wood pitches 220+ innings then you might have a legit claim.

That's exactly the point you were trying to make so I'm not assuming anything. You were trying to say Dusty ruined Travis Wood. I clearly showed two pitchers who were overworked and are fine. You are right, some pitchers handle workloads better than others. Is that Dusty Baker's fault? Not at all. If Wood pitches 220+ innings then you might have a legit claim.

No, you're putting words in my mouth. Keith Law made the point that he felt Wood was overworked and another poster put them on here.

 

I simply think that it's a valid argument.

 

Next time, challenge what I post, not what you think I mean.

And that is my point. There is nothing wrong with that jump in innings. If Wood threw 120 innings in 2009, then 200 innings in 2010 would be an issue. There are many other young pitchers with bigger inning increases than that, including Matt Latos, Madison Bumgardner, Brandon Beachy, David Price ...

There is a thing called the "Verducci Effect," which is named after Sports Illustrated's Tom Verducci. If I remember correctly, he demonstrated a few years ago that young pitchers whose workload suddenly jumps 40 or so innings often have a fallback season or two. That is right at the threshold that Wood's workload went up from 2009 to 2010.

There is a thing called the "Verducci Effect," which is named after Sports Illustrated's Tom Verducci. If I remember correctly, he demonstrated a few years ago that young pitchers whose workload suddenly jumps 40 or so innings often have a fallback season or two. That is right at the threshold that Wood's workload went up from 2009 to 2010.

 

Latos jumped up right around 40 innings from 2009 to 2010

 

Lincecum jumped up 50 innings from 2007 to 2008

 

Gio Gonzalez jumped around 50 innings from 2009 to 2010

 

Bumgarner went up 50+ innings from 2009-2010

 

Neither of those four have had a 'fallback' season since those jumps.

 

As you said, different pitchers handle workloads differently. This "Verducci Effect" is Tom Verducci trying to take credit for something that may or may not be true. I'd be willing to bet more pitchers handle the inning jumps fine than those who have ill effects.

 

I'm betting Wood's rough 2011 had more to do with the league figuring out his very underpowering stuff than this Verducci Effect. Especially since Wood has been pitching every 5th day since 2006. IMO those inning limits are more for people like Mike Leake, who are used to pitching one time a week for a few months, then come to the big leagues rather fast. A guy like Wood, who has been in professional baseball since 2005, shouldn't be effected by the innings jump. Just my opinion.

Latos jumped up right around 40 innings from 2009 to 2010

 

Lincecum jumped up 50 innings from 2007 to 2008

 

Gio Gonzalez jumped around 50 innings from 2009 to 2010

 

Bumgarner went up 50+ innings from 2009-2010

 

Neither of those four have had a 'fallback' season since those jumps.

 

As you said, different pitchers handle workloads differently. This "Verducci Effect" is Tom Verducci trying to take credit for something that may or may not be true. I'd be willing to bet more pitchers handle the inning jumps fine than those who have ill effects.

No one said that every pitcher feels the effects of it. Some may very well have. There are examples of both sides of the argument.

 

I'm betting Wood's rough 2011 had more to do with the league figuring out his very underpowering stuff than this Verducci Effect. Especially since Wood has been pitching every 5th day since 2006. IMO those inning limits are more for people like Mike Leake, who are used to pitching one time a week for a few months, then come to the big leagues rather fast. A guy like Wood, who has been in professional baseball since 2005, shouldn't be effected by the innings jump. Just my opinion.

Wood wasn't very "underpowering" in 2010 ... he was allowing 7.5 hits per nine innings with a WHIP barely over 1.

 

In 2011, his hits jump to about 10 per nine innings and his whip goes to over 1.400.

 

That's quite an adjustment by the league. If you told me that Wood had some arm issues last season, it would come as no surprise, given his performance.

The Cubs never could figure out how to use Marshall and once they had the perfect spot for him, they trade him. I hate to see him gone from the Cubs.