Sportsguy, we are no longer under the law of Moses, the law of Jesus Christ is what we are under. The old law has been nailed to the cross. I have verses if you want to see them. Actually Moses had over 300 Laws.

 

Marrigae is simply between who? But, if two folks want to be together its not my business, but I am suppose to point out sin, Ezekiel 3:18, but if they want to get together in that way, don't call in a marriage, it just doesn't fit.

 

Its God's word, and he defined it the was he wanted to, God doesn't change man does. No prayer in school for their food to bless, take away the 10 commandments. Make it OK to redo the word amrriage, now hoewcome its so hard when a family member chooses this life style, "come out of the closet', if its Ok why is there a closet?

Sportsguy, we are no longer under the law of Moses, the law of Jesus Christ is what we are under. The old law has been nailed to the cross. I have verses if you want to see them. Actually Moses had over 300 Laws.

 

Marrigae is simply between who? But, if two folks want to be together its not my business, but I am suppose to point out sin, Ezekiel 3:18, but if they want to get together in that way, don't call in a marriage, it just doesn't fit.

 

Its God's word, and he defined it the was he wanted to, God doesn't change man does. No prayer in school for their food to bless, take away the 10 commandments. Make it OK to redo the word amrriage, now hoewcome its so hard when a family member chooses this life style, "come out of the closet', if its Ok why is there a closet?

 

I'll take a stab at it.

 

So gay kids won't get stoned to death (figuratively these days) before they grow up?

I'll take a stab at it.

 

So gay kids won't get stoned to death (figuratively these days) before they grow up?

 

:thumb:

Nobody wants to get stoned, isn't that a song by Bob Dylan?

Not going to read the whole thread, just throw my two cents in. Regardless of what the Bible does or doesn't say, we people will be gay. I don't care if you believe its a choice or they're born that way- they do exist. Not allowing them to marry isn't going to make them go away. So, I ask, why won't we let them marry? At this point, it just seems like we're stripping rights away from Americans based on sexual practices.

Nobody wants to get stoned, isn't that a song by Bob Dylan?

 

Actually Larry, Robert Zimmerman sang: "Everybody Must Get Stoned!" :thumb:

Zoot, I agree, I don't think being "gay" is going away. If someone wants to get benefits for their partner/have the same right as married people, then lets figure out a way so people can protect their loved ones. Its the "marriage reference" that doesn't fit. I don't dislike people who are gay. I have met several in my life. But I cannot pick and choose Bible verses. "oh, I don't like this one so I will not do it, but these here are fine". The Bible is very clear about it. And if a gay person asks me questions, I have to be honest with them. In our after life it will not matter, will it? You will know your loved ones but not in a sense like we do now.

Sportsguy, we are no longer under the law of Moses, the law of Jesus Christ is what we are under. The old law has been nailed to the cross. I have verses if you want to see them. Actually Moses had over 300 Laws.

 

Marrigae is simply between who? But, if two folks want to be together its not my business, but I am suppose to point out sin, Ezekiel 3:18, but if they want to get together in that way, don't call in a marriage, it just doesn't fit.

 

Its God's word, and he defined it the was he wanted to, God doesn't change man does. No prayer in school for their food to bless, take away the 10 commandments. Make it OK to redo the word amrriage, now hoewcome its so hard when a family member chooses this life style, "come out of the closet', if its Ok why is there a closet?

 

Could it be called a "civil union?"

Sportsguy, we are no longer under the law of Moses, the law of Jesus Christ is what we are under. The old law has been nailed to the cross. I have verses if you want to see them. Actually Moses had over 300 Laws.

 

Marrigae is simply between who? But, if two folks want to be together its not my business, but I am suppose to point out sin, Ezekiel 3:18, but if they want to get together in that way, don't call in a marriage, it just doesn't fit.

 

Its God's word, and he defined it the was he wanted to, God doesn't change man does. No prayer in school for their food to bless, take away the 10 commandments. Make it OK to redo the word amrriage, now hoewcome its so hard when a family member chooses this life style, "come out of the closet', if its Ok why is there a closet?

 

It's not the "marriage" title that they care about. Hetrosexual couples can keep that. All they're wanting is the same benefits that are afforded married couples to be afforded to them as well. The issue isn't with it being called a "civil union", it's with the fact that they aren't given the equal benefits that you or I are given through marriage.

Zoot, I agree, I don't think being "gay" is going away. If someone wants to get benefits for their partner/have the same right as married people, then lets figure out a way so people can protect their loved ones. Its the "marriage reference" that doesn't fit. I don't dislike people who are gay. I have met several in my life. But I cannot pick and choose Bible verses. "oh, I don't like this one so I will not do it, but these here are fine". The Bible is very clear about it. And if a gay person asks me questions, I have to be honest with them. In our after life it will not matter, will it? You will know your loved ones but not in a sense like we do now.

 

As long as the government allows one segment of the population to enjoy tax breaks and benefits resulting from marriage, how is it okay to exclude another based solely on sexual preference? This isn't a religious issue, it's a civil rights issue.

BUT, Ezekiel is from the OT. While the NT says: Matthew 7:1, Matthew 7:3, John 8:7, Mark 12:31

This doesn't specifically address the original topic, but is more of a response to homosexuality in general. But I've always felt that 1 Corinthians 6: 9-11 is a pretty straightforward New Testament example of how God views homosexuality. It plainly states that homosexual offenders will not inherit the kingdom of God; and then in verse 11 Paul reminds the Corinthians, "And that is what some of you were." In other words, they had turned away from that lifestyle.

 

I do, however, acknowledge that a number of Christians are eager to highlight the "homosexual offenders" part of 1 Corinthians 6, while seemingly ignoring that the list of people not included in God's kingdom will be those who are greedy, idolaters, slanderers, swindlers, & drunkards. It speaks to what is true with some believers--they have the Golden Corral mentality-- picking & choosing of what verses they like & ignoring those they dislike.

 

Most Christians disagree with me on this, but I am of the opinion that a person can most definitely be born with a homosexual tendency. But just because a person is born with a certain flaw (the Bible calls it a sinful nature) doesn't mean said person is permitted to indulge that particular trait. I personally believe that by nature, I have a short fuse. But no one ever tells me to express that whenever I like. Just the opposite, I'm repeatedly told to harness that anger and reign it in. Failing to do so, people rightly tell me, is personally destructive.

 

I apply that same line of thinking to this issue. While I do have Biblical reasons for opposing homosexuality, I also have common sense reasons--the main one being that the average life span of a male homosexual is around 43-years-of-age. I believe it is around 49-years-of-age for the females. So on average, the homosexual will live around thirty years less than the non-homosexual, since the average life span for males & females is something like 77 for the men & 79 for the ladies.

 

What I am ashamed of, as a Christian, is how homosexuals themselves are treated by many who claim allegiance to Christ. The old adage to "hate the sin, but love the sinner" is too often ignored & that attitude puts a serious black mark on people of faith. I know I'm far from perfect--believe me, I'm very far from perfect--but we've been called to see people in the way that Jesus saw them.

 

I would point out the scene in John 8--a story many non-believers point at & say, "You can't judge me." It's the one where Jesus tells a woman caught in the act of adultery that he doesn't condemn her. But before she leaves he tells her, "Go now and leave your life of sin." I've always viewed that story as a perfect balance of tolerance & truth. Some Christians lead a "tolerance without truth" lifestyle--nothing is wrong, we all make mistakes, & we can never point out sin. This is not what we've been called to do. But then you have other Christians who lead a "truth without tolerance" lifestyle--which is equally stupid & accomplishes nothing remotely beneficial. What Jesus did in John 8 was balance both. It's called grace.

 

Excellent post. I agree with every bit of this.

Excellent post. I agree with every bit of this.

Me too. Really like your explanation of being born with certain tendencies. What comes to mind is recent studies about alcoholism and how some are born with some kind of genetic predisposition or chemical imbalance to become alcoholics. Those people struggle much more than others to stay sober.

 

My kids will say that my favorite quote is "Love the sinner, hate the sin.". Nobody will ever be able to convince me that homosexuality is smiled upon by the God that I pray to. But I love deeply several gay people, and I wish them happiness in this lifetime.

BUT, Ezekiel is from the OT. While the NT says: Matthew 7:1, Matthew 7:3, John 8:7, Mark 12:31

 

You fail to point out, in the Matthew passage, where Jesus says to take the plank out of your eye. Why? According to him, it's so that we can "see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye." The point Jesus makes when he speaks on judging others is to be incredibly cautious about it, because the measuring stick you use with others is the one that will be used with you. If judgment of any kind is indeed wrong, then God made a serious mistake in allocating judges throughout Israel & then naming an Old Testament book after them. And Jesus made a mistake when he told us to examine the fruit of a person's life to discern whether or not they are from God.

 

And as I mentioned earlier from John 8, Jesus told the woman to "go now and leave her life of sin." He exempted her from punishment at that moment, but clearly said she had been leading a life of sin.

 

And I believe I am loving my neighbor when I tactfully point out a behavior that is very destructive, whether that's his temper, his workaholism, his grudge he's holding, etc.

Ezekiel is not pointing out a "Law". OT is like a history book, its all from God, but man could not keep God's laws so God had to do some thing about that. Matthew 1:21 comes into play and its a powerful verse. Look at Psalm 23, the most famous chapter in the bible, talks about the protection of God, a promise from God.