I think Mother Jones Magazine was the first to report the Koch brothers' connection over the weekend ... interesting reading.

No, it wasn't an answer. Again, a total misinterpretation.

 

Now ... back to the thread.

Wrong, holding your breath and kicking your feet won't make you right...

 

NOW.... back to the thread.

The death of organized labor would mean open season on American workers.

 

Exaggerate much?

With all due respect, I think you have a revisionist view of history. The fact of the matter is, there has been a gradual decline of unions in the private sector since the 1980's, following the total collapse of the steel, auto, and airline industries, due almost entirely to the unsustainable demands made by labor unions. Union employees now account for only 6.9% of the private sector workforce. They are almost non-existent. Union workers in government is a much more recent phenomenon, and now account for more union employees (about 76 million) than there are in the private sector (71 million). The reason for this is explainable - in the private sector, the collapse of a company caused by unions throws workers out of jobs. Not as easy in government, where pro-union governments can (and have) simply taxed their way to sustainability. What you are seeing here is that now, even governments are collapsing and on the verge of bankruptcy, and you are absolutely correct, this is an assault on the last denizens of unions, in state government. Unions have caused the collapse of so much, you are seeing the death throes at the governmental level, and yes, it will probably take a while, because there are plenty of folks who share your view. However, you need only look at the trend in the private sector to know that you are in the minority.

Well spoken, sir. :thumb:

I think Mother Jones Magazine was the first to report the Koch brothers' connection over the weekend ... interesting reading.

 

I guess my question is so what? How is that different than the DNC being in there as I mentioned a while back? Do you think Soros isn't there? I would be shocked if everyone on both sides isn't in there.

 

Has the NY Times or Mother Jones reported on other groups being involved?

I guess my question is so what? How is that different than the DNC being in there as I mentioned a while back? Do you think Soros isn't there? I would be shocked if everyone on both sides isn't in there.

 

Has the NY Times or Mother Jones reported on other groups being involved?

 

The concern is how are they going to get a return on their investment which, as you point out, is not unique to them or any state.

 

However, there is a provision in this bill that is not being discussed. If the good Governor is truly focused on getting the best financial results for the citizens of WI then it seems strange that he and the legislature would allow state-run power plants to be sold to private entities in a NO BID sale. Which private entity is out there buying power plants today? You guessed it.

 

Maybe it will turn out that the Governor will put the power plants out to bid. It just seems strange that his biggest financial supporter is in the business and they put in no-bid language.

 

I'm open to be educated on why no-bid contracts are good for the taxpayer.

Today's headline in Illinois:

 

Dramatic Cuts for Drug and Alcohol Treatment

 

MARION-- Budget cuts have Illinois social service providers scrambling.

 

As of Tuesday, Governor Pat Quinn is eliminating a big chunk of state funding for drug and alcohol abuse treatment.

 

The state will no longer pay for any of those services if they aren't covered by Medicaid. According to The Illinois Alcohol a Drug Dependence Association, that means 80% of patients will lose services.

 

http://www.wsiltv.com/p/news_details.php?newsID=12497&type=top

 

Contrast this headline with this one:

 

 

40,000 Illinois State Workers To Get 14% Payraises

 

Tuesday, 06 Jul 2010, 10:23 PM CDT

 

Springfield, Ill. - More than 40,000 unionized state workers got a pay raise last Thursday, bringing to 7 percent the amount they're gotten since last year. These same state employees are in line for another 7 percent by next July 1, all at a cost of a half-billion tax dollars a year.

 

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/dpp/news/metro/illinois-state-workers-payraises-20100706

 

This shows what happens with poor budget management and a lack either the insight to recognize the economic realities of a decreasing in tax base; and/or lack of fortitude to negotiate properly with the unions.

 

Illinois tax receipts peaked in Q1 2008 at almost $9B per quarter. In Q1 2009 it was down to $7.7B and in Q1 2010 it was down again to $7.0B. See the chart here:

 

http://www.indexmundi.com/facts/united-states/state-taxes/illinois/all-tax-types/tax-revenue#graph

 

So in the fact of slowing economy and substantially reduced tax receipts union employees are given back to back 7% raises. And now services that help society and those at the lowest rung of the ladder will not just be curtailed but eliminated. It is all in the math. To fund raises for government employees when tax revenue is flat or down something must be cut. And those with the smallest voice, such as those needing rehab services will bear the brunt of cuts.

 

7% annual raises are unheard of in the private world currently. Before 2008 an average raise of 5% was considered good. Since 2008, 'good' is a 1 or 2% raise at best, even if you are lucky, and keeping your job with a cut is still considered a victory.

The concern is how are they going to get a return on their investment which, as you point out, is not unique to them or any state.

 

However, there is a provision in this bill that is not being discussed. If the good Governor is truly focused on getting the best financial results for the citizens of WI then it seems strange that he and the legislature would allow state-run power plants to be sold to private entities in a NO BID sale. Which private entity is out there buying power plants today? You guessed it.

 

Maybe it will turn out that the Governor will put the power plants out to bid. It just seems strange that his biggest financial supporter is in the business and they put in no-bid language.

 

I'm open to be educated on why no-bid contracts are good for the taxpayer.

Interesting indeed. Do you have a link to an article about this? I will do some digging as well.

Wrong, holding your breath and kicking your feet won't make you right...

 

NOW.... back to the thread.

Calling it like I see it ... like it or not. I'll stand by it.

The concern is how are they going to get a return on their investment which, as you point out, is not unique to them or any state.

 

However, there is a provision in this bill that is not being discussed. If the good Governor is truly focused on getting the best financial results for the citizens of WI then it seems strange that he and the legislature would allow state-run power plants to be sold to private entities in a NO BID sale. Which private entity is out there buying power plants today? You guessed it.

 

Maybe it will turn out that the Governor will put the power plants out to bid. It just seems strange that his biggest financial supporter is in the business and they put in no-bid language.

 

I'm open to be educated on why no-bid contracts are good for the taxpayer.

 

They're not and hopefully he will back down now that he's been caught at it. You would think he would have learned from when Obama tried the same thing. People are always watching.

Calling it like I see it ... like it or not. I'll stand by it.

Don't care, really. Just pointing out how wrong you were. If you only see what you want, then...

 

So, I'll let you get the last word so we can end this silliness about something totally unimportant so we can focus on the thread.

Didn't the governor just give big tax breaks to corporations, and then come up with this plan? I can tell you this, I'm a teacher in KY, and the health care options are pretty poor, I opt out because they are so bad, and instead of paying for my benefits the state gives me a flex account for which I can pay co pays, etc., that my wife's health care doesn't cover. I think it's $2,100 a year (which I'm sure is a bargains as opposed to paying part of a health care benefit). As far as retirement goes, our retirement, to me is a great deal, but we also pay about 10% of our salaries into retirement, and pay no soc. security, so we opt out of that benefit. I've never complained about my salary, good or bad, and I've worked most summers, or had to go back to school to get my masters degree. Teaching to me, is a great profession, I give up money I could have probably made in the private sector (with my education level), in return, I get to spend more time with my children, and get a pretty good retirement. I can tell you this, I haven't gotten rich, like a lot of people portray teachers to be "robbing the taxpayers". I've always said this.........if teaching is so lucrative, why don't more people want to go into it? Don't forget, you're entrusting these people to teach your children, there's a lot riding on teachers.

 

 

Lots of talking heads in this thread but I thought this was a great post. Thank you for focusing on the kids akw4572.

But you see how this all works together? By relying on Standardized test, and calling schools failures based solely on their lowest performing sub-group, not on their highest or middle, just the lowest - then you can begin talking about what failures our schools are. Well then, who runs schools - essentially it is teachers. If are schools stink, then teachers must stink. I am telling you it has been a subtle conspiracy since the enactment of NCLB to schools privatized. When that happens schools will be more segregated, we will have more drop-outs and there will be a true Intellectual elite who will be the power makers in this country. Our democracy is sliding away, and it not being lost because of the actions of the left, it is more because of the actions of the right. Bust the unions, then give those who run the businesses more power, then working conditions deteriorate and so on, and so on. I could do a whole Glen Beck show on this.

 

Democracy occurs when there is a strong middle class - we have a very small middle class these days. It is ugly and I am frightened.

Don't care, really. Just pointing out how wrong you were. If you only see what you want, then...

 

So, I'll let you get the last word so we can end this silliness about something totally unimportant so we can focus on the thread.

Not wrong by a longshot. All that was required was a "yes" or "no" ... you did neither, so I asked for clarification, which never came.

 

You didn't answer the question ... period.

 

I don't consider having my positions consistently misconstrued "silliness" ... pardon me for trying to set the record straight.

 

Done.

Anyway, silliness behinds us now, has the administration made any comments on the signs at the protests? Have they or the media said anything about the one with the cross-hairs and the the word "reload"?