NBA: Greatest Duo Ever

[PurplePride92]

After reading up on stats, etc.....I say Jordan and Pippen are tops, but I can't decide if it could've been Jordan and another extremely athletic forward of the time as well.

 

I think MJ and Barkley could have possibly been equally dominating. After Barkley I am drawing a blank on who could have filled Pippen's shoes at the forward position during that time period.

[AverageJoesGym]

I think MJ and Barkley could have possibly been equally dominating. After Barkley I am drawing a blank on who could have filled Pippen's shoes at the forward position during that time period.

 

Karl Malone

Shawn Kemp

[PurplePride92]

Karl Malone

Shawn Kemp

 

Yeah, those two would work also. I was thinking of guys who played forward with no help. Those guys had Stockton and Payton. Barkley had no one but I am sure if you paired MJ with either of the two they would have dominated.

[5wide]

Kareem and Magic had the best collection of talent around them. At their time Kareem was the best center, Magic the best pg, Worthy was one of the top 4 sf's, Byron Scott was a top 10 combo guard and with Cooper and Rambis coming off of the bench you could say they had the best bench also. MJ and Pippen led the Bulls to 6 titles with Horace Grant, Dennis Rodman, Bill Cartwright, Luc Longley, Craig Hodges, Steve Kerr, Ron Harper, BJ Armstrong, etc etc. Considering what 5Wide said about those two were perimeter players there dominance is amazing. Unlike most people I think Scottie Pippen was a huge part to the Bulls success. Without Scottie, the Bulls are nowhere near as dominant and they likely would have 0 titles. I can't front on a first ballot HOFer with 6 rings who was voted one of the top 50 players ever while he was still playing. I never liked him but he was real.

 

Pippen was great. And, a perfect complement to Jordan. Both of those guys were dominant, lock down defenders...that's what made the Bulls so great. From '91, when Chicago won their first title, through the last title in Chicago, Pippen averaged 20 ppg, 7 rpg, 6 apg and 2 spg. I can recall numerous times hearing guys suggest that he was the second best player in the league during that time. You can certainly argue that, but the point is he was a great player.

[5wide]

Spot on.

 

Although there's really nothing wrong with half of a "dominant duo" being a big man.

 

Certainly not. It's expected. That's what makes Jordan and Pippen unique, IMO. It's hard to win in the NBA without a good big man. Chicago never had one. They did have solid defenders and rebounders in the post though.

[CatsCatsCats]

LeBron and DRose? LeBron and Chris Bosh?

[5wide]

I hate to say it because I completely cheered against them every chance I could, but I really don't think that this discussion is complete if John Stockton and Karl Malone are left out. That doesn't mean I'd vote for them, but they certainly deserved to be mentioned.

 

With all that said I voted for Kareem and Magic.

 

The criteria was pretty simple for me...they had to win multiple titles together. No duo on the list has less than three. Stockton and Malone never won any. And, to top it off, they played against three of the pairs listed (Bird/McHale, Magic/Kareem, Jordan/Pippen) while in their prime and never won. They deserve respect as a great duo, but they don't belong on this list, IMO.

[AverageJoesGym]

Yeah, those two would work also. I was thinking of guys who played forward with no help. Those guys had Stockton and Payton. Barkley had no one but I am sure if you paired MJ with either of the two they would have dominated.

 

I'm not sure where you are getting that Barkley had no one at guard. Kevin Johnson was an excellent point guard, as a matter of fact he was 2nd team All-NBA 4 times and 3rd team All-NBA once. One of those years he was 2nd team was 1994, Barkley's 2nd team with the Suns. For the 4 years they were together here are Johnson's averages:

 

1993 16.1 Points, 7.8 assists

1994 20.0 points, 9.5 assists

1995 15.5 points, 7.7 assists

1996 18.7 points, 9.2 assists

 

 

He had some injuries during the regular season each of those years but was great in the playoffs .

[strongopenyon]

Here's some numbers...

 

Russell & Cousy

7 Seasons

6 Titles

379-151 (.715%)

 

Russell & Havlicek

7 Seasons

6 Titles

395-170 (.699%)

 

Magic & Kareem

10 Seasons

5 Titles

591-229 (.721%)

 

Bird & McHale

11 Seasons (excluding '88-89 when Bird played only 6 games due to injury)

3 Titles

648-254 (.718%)

 

Jordan & Pippen

9 Seasons (excluding '94-95 when Jordan came back late in the season)

6 Titles

540-198 (.732%)

 

Kobe & Shaq

8 Seasons

3 Titles

435-189 (.697%)

 

Great work, "5Wide".

 

My first thought was that Magic and Kareem were the greatest duo in NBA history. I also considered Jerry West and Wilt Chamberlain who held the record for the most wins in an NBA regular season and won the NBA title in 1971-72.

 

After looking at your statistics I must say that Michael and Scotty were probably the greatest duo in NBA history.

[FormerCawoodTrojan]

While I agree mostly wih your post, I wouldn't say Pippen crumbled without MJ. He was still a great player he just didn't win a title without him.

 

Crumbled was a strong word...but, I do think you could have put a number of people in Pip's place and the 6 titles would have still happened. You've named a few, but obviously you could insert any of 6 or so Centers from the 90's and they would have won as well.

[Clyde]

I'm not sure why a)using championships as the criteria or b)if so why we're discounting the competition. No chance the MJ Bulls faced the same competition that the Magic/Kareem Lakers did. I'm the only that remembers that the Lakers faced a team with a bunch of HOFers or near HOFers? Do the names Bird, Parish, McHale not ring a bell? How about Zeke, Laimbeer, Mahorn, and the Microwave?

 

You can't just look at raw numbers without attaching context.

 

MJ/Pippen would be at the bottom of the list above (and that's a credit to MJ).

[5wide]

If NBA titles is the measuring stick, Russell and Havlicek win and it isn't even close. Yes, they won 6 together but Russell won 5 other titles. He only missed the NBA finals one season out of his 13 season career. Havlicek won 2 titles without Russell and was the finals MVP in one of those. Both players won titles together and won titles without the other. This one isn't close people.

 

Russell may be the most underrated great player of all time. Most people probably wouldn't put him in their top 5 players of all time but how can you ignore 11 titles in 13 seasons with a changing cast around him? Everyone is focused on individual stats but it is a team game and winning titles is the goal of every player. Russell is undeniably the greatest champion ever and even if Jordan had two more titles in the seasons he missed, he still would be 3 behind Russell.

 

If you want to know why, consider this.

 

Russell's Celtics won their last three championships with 4 HOFers on the roster. That's the lowest amount of any of them.

 

The rest of their titles consisted of 5 or 6 HOFers on the roster, and one season, 1963, with 7.

 

Bob Cousy (1950-63)

John Havlicek (1962-78)

Tommy Heinsohn (1956-65)

Bailey Howell (1966-70)

KC Jones (1958-67)

Sam Jones (1957-69)

Clyde Lovellette (1962-64)

Andy Phillip (1956-58)

Bill Russell (1956-69)

Bill Sharman (1951-61)

 

That's the HOFers that Boston had during that great run. Cousy, Havlicek, Heinsohn, KC Jones, Sam Jones and Bill Sharman were all there for extended periods, several guys overlapping.

 

I picked Havlicek and Cousy for the duos, because they seem to be the most well-known, but there are actually two or three more guys you could pair with Russell that would have similar arguments. I'm not trying to diminish the accomplishment. To win the amount they did is amazing, but let's not pretend Russell was carrying a team the way a guy like Jordan did.

 

Michael played with one certain HOFer in his career. I suppose Rodman is a possibility because of his rebounding and defensive prowess, but it's not a sure thing. So, the question is, how many titles would MJ have if he'd have played with a minimum of 3 HOFers on his supporting cast for his entire career? We'll never know.

 

The point being, there's an argument to be made, and a good one at that. It doesn't end with Russell's 11 rings. If you switched Russell and Wilt during that era, how many rings would each guy have?

[CatsCatsCats]

I'll go with Kareem and Magic. Both would have been absolute superstars without the other IMO. Pippen crumbled without Jordan. It's hard to compare stuff like this though. It's like the whole Montana was only good because of Rice and vice versa....who knows really. I just think at the end of the day Magic and Kareem are the two I'd pick if starting a team.

 

Pippen's best year statistically came without Jordan in 93'-94'. 22, 8.7 RPG, 6 APG, and nearly 3 steals. He went into decline after the 98' championship but he was already 33 and injuries started to catch up with him. While I don't think he'd be as highly regarded without having played with Jordan, Pippen was a very good player and still would have been a star IMO. He was one of the most versatile forwards in the history of the game.

[Voice of Reason]

5wide ... I would say half those HOFers you list are HOFers because of Russell. Who else did MJ get into the Hall besides Pippen? There are always two ways to look at something.

[formerkywrestler]

Kareem and Magic win fairly easily for me. Clyde has done a good job of expressing why I think so.