I'd say ignoring that it is a monument of the successful attack is the ignorance here. Just my opinion. I'm not going to say that they shouldn't have the right to build it because I do believe in freedom of religion, but it's a blatant smack in the face and I'd bet more Muslim leaders than we'll ever know are smiling that it's probably going to be built.

 

After if Muslims in the Jordan want a church to leave because it is a monument to the success of the Crusades, what are you going to say? Give me proof this will memorialize the 9/11 hijackers. The leader of the mosque has said sfor the last 9 years he condemns terrorism. What more do you want?

Why? Martyr Markers are extremely popular in the Muslim community. They have been doing it for centuries.

 

While I'm still waiting for you to respond to my last post directed at you, I'll refresh your memory here. I said it's all about facts. Give me facts that this is planned to be a "martyr marker". Otherwise I say it's still just your uninformed opinion.

Who said they wanted government to intervene?

 

How else would you have this mosque struck down? Should the people rise up and destroy it? Wouldn't that be similar to what happened on 9/11? How else, legally, would this group be denied ability to construct this building?

You're saying they shouldn't be allowed to do it....What else could you mean?

 

Where did I say that they shouldn't be allowed to do it? I was simply making comparisons to what government tells us we can and can't do. We say nothing when they tell us we can't park an RV on our own property but whine, cry and right a book when they won't allow a muslim group build a mosque. I find it funny and don't care where they build their mosque as long as it's not on my property.

In the view of the radical Muslim world that is exactly what it is. To believe otherwise is naive. The actual backers of the project are to this day unknown. It is definitely funded by non-US based entities. The calculations are to coincidental. This is ignored in the discussion. In fact. Why would one of the true and long term gathering places for Muslims in lower Manhattan go out of there way to explain they are not part of the group trying to build this mosque.

 

See this link - http://www.masjidmanhattan.com/

DISCLAIMER:

Please be advised that we are by no means affiliated with any other organization trying to build anything new in the area of downtown Manhattan.

 

There are no lack of mosques in Manhattan. If you go to Google maps and goggle Manhattan mosque you will see a number of mosque and Islam centers on the island. Muslims make up around 2% of the Manhattan population. See this link.

 

So am I ignorant? I do not think so. Even the local Muslims do not what this entity. That should tell all of us something. We can choose to ignore all of these signs that this building is not one of religious expression to serve the local community but it would avoiding the obvious. We can cower at the fear of being called religious bigots or we can call it out for what it is.

 

If someone wants a true place of tolerance and healing then they can build a multi-denominational religious center that welcomes and celebrates all faiths. But do it outside the immediate landscape of the Ground Zero area. Do it 5 or more blocks away. If you really want a new mosque for all of Manhattans 37,000 (out of 1.6 million) residents - build it. But build it outside of the Ground Zero area.

 

To me the area around Ground Zero, not just "the pit", are somewhat like the walls of the Vietnam Memorial. When you are not in the rush to get a meeting or grab a cab to the airport you can look down the corridor of tall buildings and imagine what was going that Tuesday morning in 2001. Where people were walking away from the burning towers or running away after WTC 2 fell and 9:59, followed by WTC 1 at 10:28. Or where firefighters and rescue workers were running the other direction, many never to return home that night. And then you think about their children - waiting for the parents to come home that night, but didn't. And it goes on. Many reference only "the pit" as Ground Zero. But Ground Zero is the immediate area around the footprint of the towers. To say this mosque would be "built near Ground Zero" is a lie. The block of construction is very much part of Ground Zero. Is this area around the pit hollowed ground for all Americans and should it be protected from foreign Islamic entities attempting to alter it? Absolutely.

 

So because you don't know where the funding is coming from you automatically assume it's financed by foreign terrorism organizations? :lol: Talk about conspiracy. You're very good at making your replies wordy and difficult to respond to, but it was riddled with so many inaccuracies, hyperbole and opinion that is just don't see it as very credible.

 

And tell me why you think other Muslims don't want the mosque. On that website they say they aren't affiliated. Is that the only reason you say that? Maybe they don't want to be associated with the fanfare the new one has brought, the negative attention. Maybe they just want to worship in peace without news cameras showing up. You are very good at miscontruing facts to make them fit your opinion.

 

If you personally don't feel the mosque should be there, that fine. It really is. I understand your viewpoint, though I may not agree. But when you start spinning facts and making up things just so your case seems stronger, I've got to step in and say something.

Where did I say that they shouldn't be allowed to do it? I was simply making comparisons to what government tells us we can and can't do. We say nothing when they tell us we can't park an RV on our own property but whine, cry and right a book when they won't allow a muslim group build a mosque. I find it funny and don't care where they build their mosque as long as it's not on my property.

 

I apologize. I attributed the general sentiment in this thread to you in error. I along with you, don't care if they build it or not, however I think they have every right to do so.

I apologize. I attributed the general sentiment in this thread to you in error. I along with you, don't care if they build it or not, however I think they have every right to do so.

 

:thumb:

 

As to the thread title...Yes, it is a stupid idea.

So because you don't know where the funding is coming from you automatically assume it's financed by foreign terrorism organizations? :lol: Talk about conspiracy. You're very good at making your replies wordy and difficult to respond to, but it was riddled with so many inaccuracies, hyperbole and opinion that is just don't see it as very credible.

 

And tell me why you think other Muslims don't want the mosque. On that website they say they aren't affiliated. Is that the only reason you say that? Maybe they don't want to be associated with the fanfare the new one has brought, the negative attention. Maybe they just want to worship in peace without news cameras showing up. You are very good at miscontruing facts to make them fit your opinion.

 

Find the word 'terrorism' in my post. Then tell me who makes things up.

 

Maybe you have never been to Ground Zero, or the Vietnam memorial or to Kent State or Oklahoma City. Maybe you should if you have not. Maybe you should work with someone whose sister-in-law was a flight attendant on one of the planes, maybe you should meet orphans from that days events. Maybe it will alter your thinking.

Find the word 'terrorism' in my post. Then tell me who makes things up.

 

Maybe you have never been to Ground Zero, or the Vietnam memorial or to Kent State or Oklahoma City. Maybe you should if you have not. Maybe you should work with someone whose sister-in-law was a flight attendant on one of the planes, maybe you should meet orphans from that days events. Maybe it will alter your thinking.

 

Question: Shall we only look for Christians who lost someone that day? Or is it OK for us to consider the feelings of Muslim orphans, sisters, husbands, brothers of victims that day?

So because you don't know where the funding is coming from you automatically assume it's financed by foreign terrorism organizations? :lol: Talk about conspiracy. You're very good at making your replies wordy and difficult to respond to, but it was riddled with so many inaccuracies, hyperbole and opinion that is just don't see it as very credible.

 

And tell me why you think other Muslims don't want the mosque. On that website they say they aren't affiliated. Is that the only reason you say that? Maybe they don't want to be associated with the fanfare the new one has brought, the negative attention. Maybe they just want to worship in peace without news cameras showing up. You are very good at miscontruing facts to make them fit your opinion.

 

If you personally don't feel the mosque should be there, that fine. It really is. I understand your viewpoint, though I may not agree. But when you start spinning facts and making up things just so your case seems stronger, I've got to step in and say something.

 

Let me clear on the point:

 

We can choose to ignore all of these signs that this building is not one of religious expression to serve the local community but it would be avoiding the obvious. We can cower at the fear of being called religious bigots or we can call it out for what it is.

Let me clear on the point:

 

We can choose to ignore all of these signs that this building is not one of religious expression to serve the local community but it would be avoiding the obvious. We can cower at the fear of being called religious bigots or we can call it out for what it is.

 

I love how people think all Muslims are like those responsible for 9/11....Simply outstanding logic.

Question: Shall we only look for Christians who lost someone that day? Or is it OK for us to consider the feelings of Muslim orphans, sisters, husbands, brothers of victims that day?

 

I believe all should be honored and respected. Many say 3,000 American died that day. Actually the number of Americans is far less because a large number of workers in the towers were foreign guest in our country. And they were Christians and Jews and Muslims and Buddhist and other denominations.

 

I do not believe anything of this magnitude should be built in the immediate are of Ground Zero without full community support and support of the victims of that day. The backers of this project know exactly the hurt they are causing. It is they who are being disrespectful and egging on this issue. There are plenty of available properties in lower Manhattan. The actions here are deliberate and direct. And those actions are the cause of the current strife - not religious intolerance.

I love how people think all Muslims are like those responsible for 9/11....Simply outstanding logic.

 

Lets be clear. There is an element of Islam that is still at war with the US. It is that ELEMENT that is responsible. That ELEMENT is still active. Please do not reconstruct my posts to something different than it was. No where did I lay 9/11 at the feet of the entire Muslim community what so ever.

Lets be clear. There is an element of Islam that is still at war with the US. It is that ELEMENT that is responsible. That ELEMENT is still active. Please do not reconstruct my posts to something different than it was. No where did I lay 9/11 at the feet of the entire Muslim community what so ever.

 

By saying they shouldn't be allowed to build the Mosque, that's essentially what you're doing, whether it's intentional or not.

By saying they shouldn't be allowed to build the Mosque, that's essentially what you're doing, whether it's intentional or not.

 

I am saying the immediate area around footprint of the towers should be somewhat protected from any unwelcome or controversial development from any source. You know I am not a big government person. But here a designation of 'historic place' that has some level of review should be done. Mega-Mosque, super-church, giant-McDonalds, it does not matter. The surrounding area is "Ground Zero". And though the entire area can not and should not be preserved as a museum, it should be carefully guarded as a national landmark. I believe it is a national landmark, just as Gettysburg or Fredericksburg is.

 

The fact that is a mosque backed by foreign entities just makes the situation that much more volatile. And the backers of the project - who ever they maybe - know exactly the grief they are causing the 9/11 families. It is they that are insensitive.

 

I know another long reply. I apologize.