You bring up some good points and I appreciate the manner in which you presented them.

 

One point that stuck out to me...if most illegals actually have illegal legal documents (if that makes sense), how will the proposed AZ law have much affect? Illegals with be "questioned" and will produce falsified documents.

 

How do you satisfactorily prove that you are a US citizen?

 

I've been asking the same questions throughout this thread. I'm really interested to hear the responses.

I'm almost certain that if an officer has reasonable doubt that you are legal, there is a process he can go through to find out. If there's not some kind of process in place we should just forget this legal citizen stuff all together and shut down all border control.

 

I don't understand the question, unless you think there is no way to do it.

 

I asked these questions without any response:

 

Questions: If you are a Sargent of an Arizona Police force, what 5 criteria would you use to try and solve a serious problem of illegal immigrants in your city? What types of investigations? What kind of questions would you ask? How would you go about SOLVING the problem in a reasonable amount of time?

 

I assume most of you are not police officers, but I'm interested in how you might go about arresting illegals without carding the ones you think are acting suspicious or acting in a way you determine might mean they are illegal. Could you do it without ever questioning or carding a legal?

 

Many crimes have multiple suspects, can we only question the ones we know are guilty?

Saw it mentioned on Morning Joe this morning that the legal challenge against the Ariz law will be that the states do not have the right to address immigration. THat is the federal government's job to handle and Arizona, the state, has overstepped it's Constitutional authority.

 

Well, a legal challenge calling out another government for overstepping what it has been charged with doing. Hasn't the federal government been doing that for awhile now?

 

I hear Morisette's Ironic song playing in my head.

Saw it mentioned on Morning Joe this morning that the legal challenge against the Ariz law will be that the states do not have the right to address immigration. THat is the federal government's job to handle and Arizona, the state, has overstepped it's Constitutional authority.

 

Well, a legal challenge calling out another government for overstepping what it has been charged with doing. Hasn't the federal government been doing that for awhile now?

 

I hear Morisette's Ironic song playing in my head.

 

You don't need to watch Morning Joe. :clap:

 

We're also going to start hearing about the Supremacy Clause. I'm sure our esteemed BGP attorney can tell us about it but my understanding is that some question whether the state has a right to enforce a law that falls under Federal jurisdiction. This clause was cited as one of the reasons for the initial Prop 187 in CA being disallowed. This argument will probably be the first argument as it doesn't require a test case like the argument some will make that a person was arrested simply because of his race.

I've been asking the same questions throughout this thread. I'm really interested to hear the responses.

Obama, Graham, Schumer and others want a National ID card.

Obama, Graham, Schumer and others want a National ID card.

 

Wasn't there some bio-metrics involved in their plan?

You don't need to watch Morning Joe. :clap:

 

Nice call.

Obama, Graham, Schumer and others want a National ID card.

 

And what is the consequences if you don't have it on your person when the police ask for it? And can the police even ask for it?

Wasn't there some bio-metrics involved in their plan?

 

Please explain bio-metrics. Sounds very Revelations.

I'm stunned that this passed. And I'm stunned that people who rail against government intrusion in their personal lives would be ok with a law that can be wildly interpreted and enforced.

:thumb: :thumb:

 

It's mind blowing and amazingly hypocritical that so called conservatives are for such a law.

For the people who are for this bill I'd like to know the criteria you'd propose using for this. LIke exactly what would you suggest a police officer need look for when they want to ask somone to prove their legality?

 

I'm struggling to find something besides simply "being Hispanic" that would serve as a gauge for determining legality in AZ. And if I'm right this will most definitely open up Hispanic-looking people in AZ to constant harrasment.

For the people who are for this bill I'd like to know the criteria you'd propose using for this. LIke exactly what would you suggest a police officer need look for when they want to ask somone to prove their legality?

 

I'm struggling to find something besides simply "being Hispanic" that would serve as a gauge for determining legality in AZ. And if I'm right this will most definitely open up Hispanic-looking people in AZ to constant harrasment.

 

It would have to be some reason that is NOT SOLELY based on race. Something like standing in front of Walmart and checking id's before anyone would go in would not be appropriate.

 

But not being from Arizona, not being familiar with what goes on around the borders and the problems they are facing, I feel uncomfortable on saying what the police can and cannot do with ZERO true idea of the situation that exists in Arizona.

:thumb: :thumb:

 

It's mind blowing and amazingly hypocritical that so called conservatives are for such a law.

 

 

I’ll tell you what’s mind blowing and extremely hypocritical. Someone that lives many miles from Arizona and is presumptuous enough to “know” more about what needs to be done than 77% of voters and the Arizona legislature does…WOW! Hispanics are beaten, mistreated, harassed and un-telling what on a daily basis in this country and in their own, and you do or say nothing???????? Now you want to get on here and wail about this law (that simply states “reasonable suspicion” just like thousands of other laws do) while calling conservatives hypocrites? Give me a break man. You show absolutely NO respect for Arizona’s legislative system while showing no opposition to the way ObamaCare was crammed down our throats by our legislative system? Conservatives need to be called hypocrites by you? REALLY?

I’ll tell you what’s mind blowing and extremely hypocritical. Someone that lives many miles from Arizona and is presumptuous enough to “know” more about what needs to be done than 77% of voters and the Arizona legislature does…WOW! Hispanics are beaten, mistreated, harassed and un-telling what on a daily basis in this country and in their own, and you do or say nothing???????? Now you want to get on here and wail about this law (that simply states “reasonable suspicion” just like thousands of other laws do) while calling conservatives hypocrites? Give me a break man. You show absolutely NO respect for Arizona’s legislative system while showing no opposition to the way ObamaCare was crammed down our throats by our legislative system? Conservatives need to be called hypocrites by you? REALLY?

 

Good point. State of KY wouldn't want Arizona telling us how to handle the horse racing industry.

It would have to be some reason that is NOT SOLELY based on race. Something like standing in front of Walmart and checking id's before anyone would go in would not be appropriate.

 

But not being from Arizona, not being familiar with what goes on around the borders and the problems they are facing, I feel uncomfortable on saying what the police can and cannot do with ZERO true idea of the situation that exists in Arizona.

 

But, how do you prove you're an American citizen? I have a driver's license, but anyone can get one of those. I have a Certificate of Live Birth from Ky, but that's not enough. Consider that Arizona just passed a law requiring someone to produce a birth certificate to run for office. My Certificate of Live Birth is not materially different that the one Obama produced and that's not good enough for a lot of people. So, the only thing I'd have going for me in Arizona is that i don't look Hispanic which, of course, brings us back to race.