Not irresponsible in that circumstance, because say you are asked for ID, you are within a reasonable distance of where your ID is. Say you run across the street in and an officer sees you outisde of a crosswalk. He's going to ask for ID. If he feels it's warranted, he will follow you to your house to get it. If you can't do that, then I'd say next step. The people that will have the problem with this law are the ones that do not have IDs and do not belong in this country! I really get a kick out of all the people who don't like the law. But I'm not hearing any realistic alternatives from these people. If I don't like something and am going to complain, I will have an alternative to back it up.

I personally don't see how this law would even put a dent in the immigration problem, therefore I don't believe that the issues that it could cause would justify it being put in place.

Well, what do you think should happen? I would think deportation is what should happen once they're proved to be illegal.

I know, that's a crazy notion, instead I assume some would say they should be entitled to free health care, food stamps and all other social perks.

 

Lets stick to actual debate.

 

I agree with you that they should be deported. That's not the question.

 

What happens today when an illegal gets pulled over for speeding? Isn't he/she arrested for being an illegal?

Lets stick to actual debate.

 

I agree with you that they should be deported. That's not the question.

 

What happens today when an illegal gets pulled over for speeding? Isn't he/she arrested for being an illegal?

Just get to your point if you want an answer. :lol:

 

I assume you're saying the law already in place should suffice. If that were true they wouldn't have the problem they have now and therefore wouldn't have needed a new law.

I'm just going to do something I promised myself I wouldn't do. I'm going to "go there".

 

Those of you who refuse to consider the law in Arizona an infringement on a citizen's rights are simply delusional. Most of you are in here frequently espousing the right to live your life without government intrusion. You don't want to be required to buy healthcare, but you admit you have it, and you rail against those who don't as drains on society. You hold your 2nd amendment rights as sacred as you hold your religious beliefs. You don't think people who argue for more gun regulation "understand the serious threat on our constitutional freedoms". You think having to register your gun is a personal intrusion by the government and you think it violates your constitutional rights. The same argument has been made for registering your gun as it is you make for requiring and ID...if you're not doing something wrong, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. But you claim it's bigger than that.

 

You think it's ok for our law enforcement officials to make assumptions based on a person's race, what they wear, where they are. You don't feel that the rights of citizens are going to be impeded. But you are dead wrong. And if the state of our country has become such that it's ok to violate the rights of the majority for the sake of catching those here illegally, then you simply don't believe in the Constitution as a document. You believe in the rights you hold dear.

 

You get angry when I make a joke saying that you should hole up with your guns while wearing your tinfoil hats to deflect government intrusion in your life, but you turn around and make a joke that those of us opposing the law act like it's Nazi Germany and you had to show your papers proving your identity, ethnicity and citizenship.

 

But my joke was much less realistic than what you compare the opposition's viewpoint to be. Much like the citizens of Germany who were willing to turn a blind eye to what was happening in the enforcement of those laws, this law opens the door to the same policy being applied for more than just catching illegals. As an American, I personally am disgusted that American citizens, citizens who come to be in this country because of immigration, find it acceptable that a group of our citizenry can be singled out to "prove their status". To impede the rights of one citizen, no matter what the reason, impedes the rights of ALL.

 

If Arizona in fact has a ratio of 85% illegal, 15% legal Hispanic population, they need to look at the policies they have in place that have not been working. I find it hard to believe there's any way that they can come up with a definitive figure, but who knows? Maybe it's correct. If so, then how are these illegals living in their towns and cities without detection now? And how will this law change that? If they have illegal documents, a cursory review upon randomly stopping them and asking them to produce ID isn't going to change anything.

 

So, I don't want to hear any more about being disgusted with the new health care laws. I don't want to hear one excuse about why requiring gun permits, limits on what types of guns or ammo you can have are, or that registering your guns will violate your constitutional rights.

 

You don't care about the constitutional rights of ALL Americans. You care only that what you hold precious is not trampled on.

Other than having to show an ID once in a while exactly what rights of American citizens are going to be "trampled on" ? Ever fly anywhere or register your kid for little league.. Birth certificates, drivers license, photo ID's and tons of stuff are already required to do most anything on a daily basis..

Lets stick to actual debate.

 

I agree with you that they should be deported. That's not the question.

 

What happens today when an illegal gets pulled over for speeding? Isn't he/she arrested for being an illegal?

 

If they are pulled over for a traffic violation, they have to show a driver's licensce. If they cannot produce a valid licensce from a state in the US, I believe there is a hint they are not a citizen. The officer then can ask for proper documentation to show they are here legally.

77% of Arizona residents approve of the new law. They evidently have a problem that requires something to be done. When you think about it, what business is it of ours or BHO's?

 

If I fit the description of a criminal, I have no problem providing the information requested by officers that will clear me, nor do I blame them for asking. I just don't see the new law effecting legals that much. I'll give the law a chance...If officers begin wildly rounding up Hispanics and herding them back to Mexico based solely on their appearance then the law is a failure. If legals have to show their Id's a little more often and more illegals are deported then I see it as a success.

 

Showing my ID at a roadblock or because a local officer requests it is far from the government demanding to know what I have in my house. State Troopers, City Policeman and the such are not the federal government.

I'm just going to do something I promised myself I wouldn't do. I'm going to "go there".

 

Those of you who refuse to consider the law in Arizona an infringement on a citizen's rights are simply delusional. Most of you are in here frequently espousing the right to live your life without government intrusion. You don't want to be required to buy healthcare, but you admit you have it, and you rail against those who don't as drains on society. You hold your 2nd amendment rights as sacred as you hold your religious beliefs. You don't think people who argue for more gun regulation "understand the serious threat on our constitutional freedoms". You think having to register your gun is a personal intrusion by the government and you think it violates your constitutional rights. The same argument has been made for registering your gun as it is you make for requiring and ID...if you're not doing something wrong, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. But you claim it's bigger than that.

 

You think it's ok for our law enforcement officials to make assumptions based on a person's race, what they wear, where they are. You don't feel that the rights of citizens are going to be impeded. But you are dead wrong. And if the state of our country has become such that it's ok to violate the rights of the majority for the sake of catching those here illegally, then you simply don't believe in the Constitution as a document. You believe in the rights you hold dear.

 

You get angry when I make a joke saying that you should hole up with your guns while wearing your tinfoil hats to deflect government intrusion in your life, but you turn around and make a joke that those of us opposing the law act like it's Nazi Germany and you had to show your papers proving your identity, ethnicity and citizenship.

 

But my joke was much less realistic than what you compare the opposition's viewpoint to be. Much like the citizens of Germany who were willing to turn a blind eye to what was happening in the enforcement of those laws, this law opens the door to the same policy being applied for more than just catching illegals. As an American, I personally am disgusted that American citizens, citizens who come to be in this country because of immigration, find it acceptable that a group of our citizenry can be singled out to "prove their status". To impede the rights of one citizen, no matter what the reason, impedes the rights of ALL.

 

If Arizona in fact has a ratio of 85% illegal, 15% legal Hispanic population, they need to look at the policies they have in place that have not been working. I find it hard to believe there's any way that they can come up with a definitive figure, but who knows? Maybe it's correct. If so, then how are these illegals living in their towns and cities without detection now? And how will this law change that? If they have illegal documents, a cursory review upon randomly stopping them and asking them to produce ID isn't going to change anything.

 

So, I don't want to hear any more about being disgusted with the new health care laws. I don't want to hear one excuse about why requiring gun permits, limits on what types of guns or ammo you can have are, or that registering your guns will violate your constitutional rights.

 

You don't care about the constitutional rights of ALL Americans. You care only that what you hold precious is not trampled on.

 

Didn't mean to imply that it was OK...In this particular situation I believe human nature makes it inevitable.

 

I simply don't believe the rights of legal citizens will be seriously impeded. Again, If I fit the description of a criminal, I understand why I might be asked to produce my Id or asked questions pertaining to the crime. I honestly don't think my rights would be violated.

Just get to your point if you want an answer. :lol:

 

I assume you're saying the law already in place should suffice. If that were true they wouldn't have the problem they have now and therefore wouldn't have needed a new law.

 

That's been my question in this entire thread.

 

If we have the ability to arrest illegals today why do we need a new law? Why can't we just enforce the one we have in place?

 

What can AZ do today, prior to this new law, when they arrest someone who is determined to be an illegal? Why do we need to new law?

Other than having to show an ID once in a while exactly what rights of American citizens are going to be "trampled on" ? Ever fly anywhere or register your kid for little league.. Birth certificates, drivers license, photo ID's and tons of stuff are already required to do most anything on a daily basis..

 

I don't think anyone has a problem with the examples you list.

 

How many times have you walked down the street and had an officer ask you to show ID when you've done nothing and they have nothing to suspect you of? It seems like some/many are saying they're OK with police doing just this with Hispanics.

If they are pulled over for a traffic violation, they have to show a driver's licensce. If they cannot produce a valid licensce from a state in the US, I believe there is a hint they are not a citizen. The officer then can ask for proper documentation to show they are here legally.

 

Are you saying that's the way it is today.

 

If so, why do we need a new law?

 

So, I don't want to hear any more about being disgusted with the new health care laws. I don't want to hear one excuse about why requiring gun permits, limits on what types of guns or ammo you can have are, or that registering your guns will violate your constitutional rights.

 

You don't care about the constitutional rights of ALL Americans. You care only that what you hold precious is not trampled on.

Sorry, but you're going to. Especially since you want to compare apples to oranges, and WOW, are you ever!

I don't think anyone has a problem with the examples you list.

 

How many times have you walked down the street and had an officer ask you to show ID when you've done nothing and they have nothing to suspect you of? It seems like some/many are saying they're OK with police doing just this with Hispanics.

I've had it happen to me on several occasions, I had no problem with it then and have no problem with it now.

77% of Arizona residents approve of the new law. They evidently have a problem that requires something to be done. When you think about it, what business is it of ours or BHO's?

 

 

People in the south , by large majorities, used to think it was OK to treat blacks differently. What's your point?

I've had it happen to me on several occasions, I had no problem with it then and have no problem with it now.

 

Is this one of your "I was out at 2:00 in the morning" scenarios?