You all are acting like just because we don't support this particular law then that means we're in favor of having illegal immigrants in the country. Quite a broad brush don't you think?

You ask for an ID and they cannot produce one?

 

 

My problem with this isn't that they can be asked for an ID. My problem is the reasons why someone can be asked to produce an ID. To me, there's no such thing as "looking" illegal. It's not inconceivable that Canadians are here illegally, expired work visas, etc. So, I can't fathom how the police will be able to ask ID randomly for the purpose of determining the legal status of a citizen without violating legal citizen's rights.

 

I agree that something needs to be done to address the problem of illegal immigration. But I don't think the answer is risking the rights to citizens to do so.

 

The other issue is that many illegal immigrants fly under the radar because they have falsified legal documents, visas, social security numbers/cards, drivers licenses.

 

Once again, how does one determine at the time an ID is requested that 1) the person "looks" like an illegal, and 2) the documents produced are legal?

 

Cammando, I don't have a better solution, but this definitely isn't a good solution at all.

You all are acting like just because we don't support this particular law then that means we're in favor of having illegal immigrants in the country. Quite a broad brush don't you think?

 

Absolutely... and I'm in favor of parts of the law, such as the penalties for business owners who get caught using illegal workers.

Absolutely... and I'm in favor of parts of the law, such as the penalties for business owners who get caught using illegal workers.

 

 

And that part is perfect for building a solution to the problem. Illegals come here because they can get jobs. Business owners don't care that they're illegal, because the risk is less than the reward. They can hire illegals cheaply, without benefits. One way to stem the flow of illegal immigrants is to put real teeth into the penalties that businesses will incur if caught hiring them. Then, the business owners will have to be more vigilant in their hiring checks, and the jobs will become more scarce.

 

Take away the "benefits". Don't take away rights.

Why don't they just build a wall? Eventually, a few bad police will prove all the protestors right and it will set back efforts to stop the problem.

 

I've been asking that question for years.

And that part is perfect for building a solution to the problem. Illegals come here because they can get jobs. Business owners don't care that they're illegal, because the risk is less than the reward. They can hire illegals cheaply, without benefits. One way to stem the flow of illegal immigrants is to put real teeth into the penalties that businesses will incur if caught hiring them. Then, the business owners will have to be more vigilant in their hiring checks, and the jobs will become more scarce.

 

Take away the "benefits". Don't take away rights.

The new law addresses the employers of illegals..

The new law addresses the employers of illegals..

 

 

That's not ALL the law does though. It's the other part, the part that relies on subjectivity in application, that I disagree with.

So if you're legal and you don't have you're ID on you then you're going to jail? Yeah, that won't cause any problems...

 

Irresponsible for anyone to not have ID on them. So yeah, if ya don't have it on ya, it goes to the next step. Think about what you have to produce if pulled over. Drivers license, car registration, insurance card, and you better have thme with you. ANYONE out in public without ID is asking for a problem, whether it be identification in case of an accident, or proof of who you are when dwealing with authorities. I wish I had a buck for every time I was asked to produce ID for whatever. I'd be a rich man...

OK, guys, y'all are going to have to help me here.

 

How is it intrusive if the government requires you to register your guns, but it's not intrusive to having a law that pretty much ok's it for law enforcement officials to randomly stop you for no real reason and ask for your ID?

OK, guys, y'all are going to have to help me here.

 

How is it intrusive if the government requires you to register your guns, but it's not intrusive to having a law that pretty much ok's it for law enforcement officials to randomly stop you for no real reason and ask for your ID?

Apples and oranges.. Owning a gun is a right.. Being in the country illegally is not...

Irresponsible for anyone to not have ID on them. So yeah, if ya don't have it on ya, it goes to the next step. Think about what you have to produce if pulled over. Drivers license, car registration, insurance card, and you better have thme with you. ANYONE out in public without ID is asking for a problem, whether it be identification in case of an accident, or proof of who you are when dwealing with authorities. I wish I had a buck for every time I was asked to produce ID for whatever. I'd be a rich man...

So I'm irresponsible for not having my ID on me if I go for a run outside? I'd say I've been asked to produce my ID by the authorities about 3 times in my entire life and they were all because I was doing something that I probably shouldn't have been doing in the first place. If I'm of Hispanic descent and I'm outside of my home in Arizona I shouldn't have to live in fear of the police if I don't happen to have my ID on me 24 hours a day.

Absolutely... and I'm in favor of parts of the law, such as the penalties for business owners who get caught using illegal workers.

:thumb:

You know one thing that really irks me about this whole thing. The anger that is directed at the government by the left (which most leftys hold in very high esteem, after all their comfortable letting them dictate if we have health insurance ) for enforcing our laws when in reality the anger should be directed at those that have come here illegally and are causing all of this in the first place.

Apples and oranges.. Owning a gun is a right.. Being in the country illegally is not...

 

That's not the issue here. The issue is how this policy affects American citizens and those with work visas that are legally allowed to be here. The problem I have with "reasonable suspicion" of illegal status is that, in practice, that means "looks hispanic." It's a policy that intrudes on people with legal status and that makes me uncomfortable.

 

You're supposed to have the right to decline to show an ID to a police officer if they can't explain that they have probable cause to ask for one... try it sometime. If I, a 26-year-old white guy from Kentucky, did that, I'd probably get pulled back into the confrontation. Then put yourself in the position of someone with a cursory knowledge of the language and a very limited knowledge of the law... now try it.

You know one thing that really irks me about this whole thing. The anger that is directed at the government by the left (which most leftys hold in very high esteem, after all their comfortable letting them dictate if we have health insurance ) for enforcing our laws when in reality the anger should be directed at those that have come here illegally and are causing all of this in the first place.

Exactly... The left doesn't mind government intrusion in most every aspect of their lives... Why is this any different than the Feds profiling you if you don't buy health insurance?? :thumb: