That's been my question in this entire thread.

 

If we have the ability to arrest illegals today why do we need a new law? Why can't we just enforce the one we have in place?

 

What can AZ do today, prior to this new law, when they arrest someone who is determined to be an illegal? Why do we need to new law?

Obviously the current law wasn't enough in AZ, they deemed it necessary to pass a new one. Your questions would be best answered by AZ officials rather than by those of us here in KY.

Obviously the current law wasn't enough in AZ, they deemed it necessary to pass a new one. Your questions would be best answered by AZ officials rather than by those of us here in KY.

 

But "those of us here in KY" seem to already know the answers.

Is this one of your "I was out at 2:00 in the morning" scenarios?

Heck no, not all the time. A few times it was broad daylight. It was because of the area I was in and the profile I fit. It was no big deal to me.

But "those of us here in KY" seem to already know the answers.

Oh, I just thought those of us here in KY just had their opinions. My bad....

People in the south , by large majorities, used to think it was OK to treat blacks differently. What's your point?

 

I'm just saying an overwhelming majority of people in Arizona approve of a new law (that in no way compares to thinking it is OK to treat blacks differently) that IMO is not infringing on any one's rights. If officers have a legit reason to suspect that an individual is illegal they can ask for Id. The law does not give officers permission to violate rights of Hispanics, therefore I believe it's none of our or the federal government's business. There are more than one vague law out there...Discretion must play a part. The "Red Handed" approach can't work.

 

If you are an illegal immigrant in Arizona and don't act suspicious, run from or avoid an officer, chances are you won't get asked for Id. The same goes for legals. Seriously, I don't see a big deal in the law.

Questions: If you are a Sargent of an Arizona Police force, what 5 criteria would you use to try and solve a serious problem of illegal immigrants in your city? What types of investigations? What kind of questions would you ask? How would you go about SOLVING the problem in a reasonable amount of time?

 

I assume most of you are not police officers, but I'm interested in how you might go about arresting illegals without carding the ones you think are acting suspicious or acting in a way you determine might mean they are illegal. Could you do it without ever questioning or carding a legal?

 

Many crimes have multiple suspects, can we only question the ones we know are guilty?

Edited April 25, 201016 yr by SKINPIG

I'm just going to do something I promised myself I wouldn't do. I'm going to "go there".

 

Those of you who refuse to consider the law in Arizona an infringement on a citizen's rights are simply delusional. Most of you are in here frequently espousing the right to live your life without government intrusion. You don't want to be required to buy healthcare, but you admit you have it, and you rail against those who don't as drains on society. You hold your 2nd amendment rights as sacred as you hold your religious beliefs. You don't think people who argue for more gun regulation "understand the serious threat on our constitutional freedoms". You think having to register your gun is a personal intrusion by the government and you think it violates your constitutional rights. The same argument has been made for registering your gun as it is you make for requiring and ID...if you're not doing something wrong, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. But you claim it's bigger than that.

 

You think it's ok for our law enforcement officials to make assumptions based on a person's race, what they wear, where they are. You don't feel that the rights of citizens are going to be impeded. But you are dead wrong. And if the state of our country has become such that it's ok to violate the rights of the majority for the sake of catching those here illegally, then you simply don't believe in the Constitution as a document. You believe in the rights you hold dear.

 

You get angry when I make a joke saying that you should hole up with your guns while wearing your tinfoil hats to deflect government intrusion in your life, but you turn around and make a joke that those of us opposing the law act like it's Nazi Germany and you had to show your papers proving your identity, ethnicity and citizenship.

 

But my joke was much less realistic than what you compare the opposition's viewpoint to be. Much like the citizens of Germany who were willing to turn a blind eye to what was happening in the enforcement of those laws, this law opens the door to the same policy being applied for more than just catching illegals. As an American, I personally am disgusted that American citizens, citizens who come to be in this country because of immigration, find it acceptable that a group of our citizenry can be singled out to "prove their status". To impede the rights of one citizen, no matter what the reason, impedes the rights of ALL.

 

If Arizona in fact has a ratio of 85% illegal, 15% legal Hispanic population, they need to look at the policies they have in place that have not been working. I find it hard to believe there's any way that they can come up with a definitive figure, but who knows? Maybe it's correct. If so, then how are these illegals living in their towns and cities without detection now? And how will this law change that? If they have illegal documents, a cursory review upon randomly stopping them and asking them to produce ID isn't going to change anything.

 

So, I don't want to hear any more about being disgusted with the new health care laws. I don't want to hear one excuse about why requiring gun permits, limits on what types of guns or ammo you can have are, or that registering your guns will violate your constitutional rights.

 

You don't care about the constitutional rights of ALL Americans. You care only that what you hold precious is not trampled on.

 

As an American with a Hispanic background AND a gun owner, I completely agree. :thumb: I also won't be making plans to visit Arizona any time soon, if this law passes.

As an American with a Hispanic background AND a gun owner, I completely agree. :thumb: I also won't be making plans to visit Arizona any time soon, if this law passes.

So are you, or have you ever been offended or thought your rights have been trampled on when asked for an ID for any reason???

Other than having to show an ID once in a while exactly what rights of American citizens are going to be "trampled on" ? Ever fly anywhere or register your kid for little league.. Birth certificates, drivers license, photo ID's and tons of stuff are already required to do most anything on a daily basis..

 

You choose to fly. You choose to register your kid for little league. Those are things you make a choice to do. There's a difference in being asked for pertinent reasons, and being approached for the simple reason that your ethnicity makes you a suspect.

 

77% of Arizona residents approve of the new law. They evidently have a problem that requires something to be done. When you think about it, what business is it of ours or BHO's?

 

If I fit the description of a criminal, I have no problem providing the information requested by officers that will clear me, nor do I blame them for asking. I just don't see the new law effecting legals that much. I'll give the law a chance...If officers begin wildly rounding up Hispanics and herding them back to Mexico based solely on their appearance then the law is a failure. If legals have to show their Id's a little more often and more illegals are deported then I see it as a success.

 

Showing my ID at a roadblock or because a local officer requests it is far from the government demanding to know what I have in my house. State Troopers, City Policeman and the such are not the federal government.

 

Would you feel the same way if white Canadians were the problem, and you were asked to show your ID for doing nothing more than being a white person in a public area?

I'm just saying an overwhelming majority of people in Arizona approve of a new law (that in no way compares to thinking it is OK to treat blacks differently) that IMO is not infringing on any one's rights. If officers have a legit reason to suspect that an individual is illegal they can ask for Id. The law does not give officers permission to violate rights of Hispanics, therefore I believe it's none of our or the federal government's business. There are more than one vague law out there...Discretion must play a part. The "Red Handed" approach can't work.

 

If you are an illegal immigrant in Arizona and don't act suspicious, run from or avoid an officer, chances are you won't get asked for Id. The same goes for legals. Seriously, I don't see a big deal in the law.

 

The simple fact is, that this law makes it suspicious to just be Hispanic in Arizona. The next simple fact is that many illegals already have falsified documents, and have flown under the radar for years. They hold jobs, pay taxes, send their kids to school. This law won't work any better than the previous laws. All it does is violate the rights of legal citizens.

 

You don't have to show ID to prove you're a citizen just because you're white. Why should a Hispanic person have to show their ID just to prove they're a citizen?

The simple fact is, that this law makes it suspicious to just be Hispanic in Arizona. The next simple fact is that many illegals already have falsified documents, and have flown under the radar for years. They hold jobs, pay taxes, send their kids to school. This law won't work any better than the previous laws. All it does is violate the rights of legal citizens.

 

You don't have to show ID to prove you're a citizen just because you're white. Why should a Hispanic person have to show their ID just to prove they're a citizen?

So if I committed several felonies years ago and didn't get caught that makes it OK... Falsifying documents is illegal...

So are you, or have you ever been offended or thought your rights have been trampled on when asked for an ID for any reason???

 

As a female with a Hispanic father and a white mother, in the words of my illustrious high school guidance counselor (imagine a whispered voice here), if I don't tell anyone otherwise, "I might pass for white." You've met me. What are your thoughts on that part?

 

In answer to your question, alone, no. With my father, yes, perhaps...on two occasions.

 

1) I've periodically used the local landfill for disposing of items too large to sit out for the trash collection crew. I borrow the truck of a friend. I'd made this trip alone or with my friend or other passengers numerous times. The one time that my father went with me, in the same truck, the clerk insisted that I leave my drivers license with her and have the vehicle reweighed post drop off. She did not make the vehicle behind me do the same thing. Since then I've not ONCE been asked to leave my license and have the vehicle reweighed upon exit. The only variable that one time was my father. I never could quite figure out what the fuss was about or how/why/if it was racially connected.

 

2) Driving across Kansas a couple of years ago with my father in a yellow Ryder truck loaded with furniture, I was pulled over. The cop said that I was swerving. He asked for my license and my father's (my passenger, who was asleep at the time). He also asked what I was hauling. I told him. He asked if he could see inside the back of the truck. We had it padlocked, but I told him yes. He went back to his vehicle, ran our licenses, didn't look in the back, and told us to continue on. BTW...I wasn't swerving or speeding or even changing lanes.

 

Dad has examples of this to numerous to recount.

 

I don't simply mind the time lost with these activities. Again, it's not so much me, as I don't look "Hispanic enough" to likely draw suspicion of being illegal myself. I'm put out at the treatment of people like my father, a Vietnam veteran, essentially having to prove that he is an American citizen, after giving eight years of his life serving his country. I know that it makes ME feel like I am looked at as less American and I know that it hurts my father, too. THAT is my issue.

 

Now, before someone suggest that I direct my ire at the illegal immigrants, I'd be much more likely to project it at those that hire them. Most of the illegal immigrants are not here to mooch off of our government, but to work. Take away their sources of income and they will stop coming.

 

I do have concerns about the children of illegal immigrants, whether they be born in the US or not. If an 18 year old has lived in the US for 17 years and made no choice of his own to come illegally to the US, do we really expect him return to Mexico, after being educated in US schools and having learned English? When this is the only life that he has ever known?

As a female with a Hispanic father and a white mother, in the words of my illustrious high school guidance counselor (imagine a whispered voice here), if I don't tell anyone otherwise, "I might pass for white." You've met me. What are your thoughts on that part?

 

In answer to your question, alone, no. With my father, yes, perhaps...on two occasions.

 

1) I've periodically used the local landfill for disposing of items too large to sit out for the trash collection crew. I borrow the truck of a friend. I'd made this trip alone or with my friend or other passengers numerous times. The one time that my father went with me, in the same truck, the clerk insisted that I leave my drivers license with her and have the vehicle reweighed post drop off. She did not make the vehicle behind me do the same thing. Since then I've not ONCE been asked to leave my license and have the vehicle reweighed upon exit. The only variable that one time was my father. I never could quite figure out what the fuss was about or how/why/if it was racially connected.

 

2) Driving across Kansas a couple of years ago with my father in a yellow Ryder truck loaded with furniture, I was pulled over. The cop said that I was swerving. He asked for my license and my father's (my passenger, who was asleep at the time). He also asked what I was hauling. I told him. He asked if he could see inside the back of the truck. We had it padlocked, but I told him yes. He went back to his vehicle, ran our licenses, didn't look in the back, and told us to continue on. BTW...I wasn't swerving or speeding or even changing lanes.

 

Dad has examples of this to numerous to recount.

 

I don't simply mind the time lost with these activities. Again, it's not so much me, as I don't look "Hispanic enough" to likely draw suspicion of being illegal myself. I'm put out at the treatment of people like my father, a Vietnam veteran, essentially having to prove that he is an American citizen, after giving eight years of his life serving his country. I know that it makes ME feel like I am looked at as less American and I know that it hurts my father, too. THAT is my issue.

 

Now, before someone suggest that I direct my ire at the illegal immigrants, I'd be much more likely to project it at those that hire them. Most of the illegal immigrants are not here to mooch off of our government, but to work. Take away their sources of income and they will stop coming.

 

I do have concerns about the children of illegal immigrants, whether they be born in the US or not. If an 18 year old has lived in the US for 17 years and made no choice of his own to come illegally to the US, do we really expect him return to Mexico, after being educated in US schools and having learned English? When this is the only life that he has ever known?

Great post...:thumb: I also loathe the employers of illegals.. It cost me personally thousands of dollars a year. The new law address that issue too..

The simple fact is, that this law makes it suspicious to just be Hispanic in Arizona. The next simple fact is that many illegals already have falsified documents, and have flown under the radar for years. They hold jobs, pay taxes, send their kids to school. This law won't work any better than the previous laws. All it does is violate the rights of legal citizens.

 

You don't have to show ID to prove you're a citizen just because you're white. Why should a Hispanic person have to show their ID just to prove they're a citizen?

 

Please explain how the "law" violates rights of legal citizens. I can see how some officers might violate rights, but not the law as written. Laws cannot be written expecting EVERY officer will enforce it correctly.

The simple fact is, that this law makes it suspicious to just be Hispanic in Arizona. The next simple fact is that many illegals already have falsified documents, and have flown under the radar for years. They hold jobs, pay taxes, send their kids to school. This law won't work any better than the previous laws. All it does is violate the rights of legal citizens.

 

You don't have to show ID to prove you're a citizen just because you're white. Why should a Hispanic person have to show their ID just to prove they're a citizen?

 

This may sound cold to you but if you are a Hispanic in Arizona, I suspect there's a chance you may be illegal. If you are black, white or oriental I wouldn't suspect you near as much, if any. Call me stupid, but deductive reasoning makes me feel this way.:idunno: