I have used my knowledge of the Holy Bible (KJV) and my knowledge of world history to back my statement. I will give one example, history tells me that the Roman empire was once the strogest empire in the world. The Bible teaches me that when the Roman empire was strong it was in Gods favor. The Bible teaches me that the Roman people turned from God and history tells me that the Roman Empire fell. As I have stated before, 2+2=4. I have found out a long time ago that it is almost impossible to change someones mind when they have decided never to let it be changed so I am not trying to change anyones mind. I am just stateing what I believe to be facts based on my education and my faith that the Holy Bible is Gods word. I am proud that I am a Christian. I here a lot of people on here talk about religion, I don't belong to a religion. There is only one church and that is the one Jesus Christ created when he shed his blood for all mans sins. To belong to this church you have to accept him as your savior. Now, I don't care what religion you belong to, if you accept Jesus Christ as your savior then you are my brother or sister (in Christ) and we belong to the same church. I pray everyday that this country doesn't turn completely away from God because in my heart I know we are the greatest country in the world because we have Gods favor and if we turn completely from him then he may turn completly from us. I gaurantee if we lose Gods favor our way of life will be gone forever. Just curious, how many women want to live the life of a muslim woman, how many Americans want to live the life of a Chinese citizen and so-on and so-on. Why do all of these nationalities want to come to the USA? Because they do not like living the life their country has to offer. Then I ask why come here and want the people in this country to change to what they left. If they still want to live that life go back to where they came from. Our forefathers left Europe, came here and then changed their way of life, and the ones who didn't want to change either got killed or went back to Europe. To me it's not that complicated but then again I know where I will spend my eternity! May God Bless you all!

Because only one of them is correct.

 

Which one?????

Actually there were English translations prior to KJV.

 

While the scriptures were written in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic - none of the original autographs exist. We have texts of copies of copies but nothing original. (Probably because God understood that idolatry thing pretty well.)

 

The translations we have rely on those older texts but not all look at them with the same lens of translation either.

 

Might be a good time to start a thread about the KJV since it seems to be so prevelant on this one. :thumb:

 

True.

Which one?????

 

You tell me, it's impossible for both of them to be correct.

I have used my knowledge of the Holy Bible (KJV) and my knowledge of world history to back my statement. I will give one example, history tells me that the Roman empire was once the strogest empire in the world. The Bible teaches me that when the Roman empire was strong it was in Gods favor. The Bible teaches me that the Roman people turned from God and history tells me that the Roman Empire fell. As I have stated before, 2+2=4. I have found out a long time ago that it is almost impossible to change someones mind when they have decided never to let it be changed so I am not trying to change anyones mind. I am just stateing what I believe to be facts based on my education and my faith that the Holy Bible is Gods word. I am proud that I am a Christian. I here a lot of people on here talk about religion, I don't belong to a religion. There is only one church and that is the one Jesus Christ created when he shed his blood for all mans sins. To belong to this church you have to accept him as your savior. Now, I don't care what religion you belong to, if you accept Jesus Christ as your savior then you are my brother or sister (in Christ) and we belong to the same church. I pray everyday that this country doesn't turn completely away from God because in my heart I know we are the greatest country in the world because we have Gods favor and if we turn completely from him then he may turn completly from us. I gaurantee if we lose Gods favor our way of life will be gone forever. Just curious, how many women want to live the life of a muslim woman, how many Americans want to live the life of a Chinese citizen and so-on and so-on. Why do all of these nationalities want to come to the USA? Because they do not like living the life their country has to offer. Then I ask why come here and want the people in this country to change to what they left. If they still want to live that life go back to where they came from. Our forefathers left Europe, came here and then changed their way of life, and the ones who didn't want to change either got killed or went back to Europe. To me it's not that complicated but then again I know where I will spend my eternity! May God Bless you all!

 

So other countries with large Christian populations don't have God's favor and therefore aren't the "greatest country in the world"? I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I'm just trying to find some clarity.

 

FWIW, I love discussing the issues with open minded people. I think that it's important to consider issues from multiple perspectives.

I have used my knowledge of the Holy Bible (KJV) and my knowledge of world history to back my statement. I will give one example, history tells me that the Roman empire was once the strogest empire in the world. The Bible teaches me that when the Roman empire was strong it was in Gods favor. The Bible teaches me that the Roman people turned from God and history tells me that the Roman Empire fell. As I have stated before, 2+2=4. I have found out a long time ago that it is almost impossible to change someones mind when they have decided never to let it be changed so I am not trying to change anyones mind. I am just stateing what I believe to be facts based on my education and my faith that the Holy Bible is Gods word. I am proud that I am a Christian. I here a lot of people on here talk about religion, I don't belong to a religion. There is only one church and that is the one Jesus Christ created when he shed his blood for all mans sins. To belong to this church you have to accept him as your savior. Now, I don't care what religion you belong to, if you accept Jesus Christ as your savior then you are my brother or sister (in Christ) and we belong to the same church. I pray everyday that this country doesn't turn completely away from God because in my heart I know we are the greatest country in the world because we have Gods favor and if we turn completely from him then he may turn completly from us. I gaurantee if we lose Gods favor our way of life will be gone forever. Just curious, how many women want to live the life of a muslim woman, how many Americans want to live the life of a Chinese citizen and so-on and so-on. Why do all of these nationalities want to come to the USA? Because they do not like living the life their country has to offer. Then I ask why come here and want the people in this country to change to what they left. If they still want to live that life go back to where they came from. Our forefathers left Europe, came here and then changed their way of life, and the ones who didn't want to change either got killed or went back to Europe. To me it's not that complicated but then again I know where I will spend my eternity! May God Bless you all!

 

 

Can you tell me when Rome was at it's height it was "In God's Favor?" Constantine was the first Christian emperor and that was from 303-337 AD. The Height of Rome's expansion was 200 AD, a century before Christianity was made a State Religion.

 

http://www.vlib.us/medieval/lectures/roman_empire.html

 

Some note it even earlier in terms of power and might as Pre Christ and into the 2nd Century.

 

http://www.eduplace.com/kids/socsci/ca/books/bkf3/imaps/AC_13_427_romheight/AC_13_427_romheight.html

 

 

I'm not debating your theological presumptions but your history is off somewhat in your first assertion.

 

As to the Bible telling you that the Roman people turned from God and fell, the most conservative estimates place the Scriptures being completed by the beginning of the 2nd Century AD, and most Liberal estimates point to completion by the end of the 2nd Century.

 

Rome fell in 476 AD.

So other countries with large Christian populations don't have God's favor and therefore aren't the "greatest country in the world"? I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I'm just trying to find some clarity.

 

FWIW, I love discussing the issues with open minded people. I think that it's important to consider issues from multiple perspectives.

 

Define open minded people.

So other countries with large Christian populations don't have God's favor and therefore aren't the "greatest country in the world"? I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I'm just trying to find some clarity.

 

FWIW, I love discussing the issues with open minded people. I think that it's important to consider issues from multiple perspectives.

 

I didn't say that other countries didn't have Gods favor I said that we are the greatest country (and I hope you beieve that) and as of now we have Gods favor. We could have never become the greatest country without Gods favor and if we lose it I believe we will...............well lets say..........be unthroned as the greatest country. IMO! I think if God turns from us we are way of life as we know it wilol be doomed. again IMHO! Again, that is not saying that other countries are not held in Gods favor!

Can you tell me when Rome was at it's height it was "In God's Favor?" Constantine was the first Christian emperor and that was from 303-337 AD. The Height of Rome's expansion was 200 AD, a century before Christianity was made a State Religion.

 

http://www.vlib.us/medieval/lectures/roman_empire.html

 

Some note it even earlier in terms of power and might as Pre Christ and into the 2nd Century.

 

http://www.eduplace.com/kids/socsci/ca/books/bkf3/imaps/AC_13_427_romheight/AC_13_427_romheight.html

 

 

I'm not debating your theological presumptions but your history is off somewhat in your first assertion.

 

As to the Bible telling you that the Roman people turned from God and fell, the most conservative estimates place the Scriptures being completed by the beginning of the 2nd Century AD, and most Liberal estimates point to completion by the end of the 2nd Century.

 

Rome fell in 476 AD.

 

First off I want to point out that the key word you use is estimate with Gods word there is no estimates!

 

Also, it is important to remember that God was here before state or any other kind of religions and he will be here when all religions are gone. Remeber he is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end!

 

In the time of Sampson the Romans were the worlds power and they were being un-Godly and God allowed Sampson to kill more Romans with his own death than he ever did while he was alive. I just added this to show that dated timelines aren't always the way to go.............Faith...................have some faith in the word of God!

First off I want to point out that the key word you use is estimate with Gods word there is no estimates!

 

Also, it is important to remember that God was here before state or any other kind of religions and he will be here when all religions are gone. Remeber he is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end!

 

In the time of Sampson the Romans were the worlds power and they were being un-Godly and God allowed Sampson to kill more Romans with his own death than he ever did while he was alive. I just added this to show that dated timelines aren't always the way to go.............Faith...................have some faith in the word of God!

 

 

Considering Sampson was involved with the Philistines and not the Romans I think you need to work on supporting your points when you take your history methodology class.

 

The Philistines were well before the time of Rome as a power and, in fact, were before the time of Antiochus. Whom the Jews defeated to become an independent power prior to their eventual absorption by Rome. So while Sampson, if he existed as anything more than a biblical allegory to maintaining faith and not being led astray, did take a number of "godless heathens" with him, they were Philistine and not Roman.

Considering Sampson was involved with the Philistines and not the Romans I think you need to work on supporting your points when you take your history methodology class.

 

The Philistines were well before the time of Rome as a power and, in fact, were before the time of Antiochus. Whom the Jews defeated to become an independent power prior to their eventual absorption by Rome. So while Sampson, if he existed as anything more than a biblical allegory to maintaining faith and not being led astray, did take a number of "godless heathens" with him, they were Philistine and not Roman.

 

Your right, my bad I was having a brain fart!

First off I want to point out that the key word you use is estimate with Gods word there is no estimates!

 

Also, it is important to remember that God was here before state or any other kind of religions and he will be here when all religions are gone. Remeber he is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end!

 

In the time of Sampson the Romans were the worlds power and they were being un-Godly and God allowed Sampson to kill more Romans with his own death than he ever did while he was alive. I just added this to show that dated timelines aren't always the way to go.............Faith...................have some faith in the word of God!

 

House of Pain, I'm really :confused: on this post.

 

My "estimates" were about time frames in history not about Scripture.

 

Since you are speaking with such certainty on time frames from Scripture, please proivde the texts you are using to determine the Height and power of Rome and for that matter their fall. The scriptures were closed by the time of the Fall of the Roman Empire so that would be pretty impossible.

 

You've already confused Sampson (Judges in case you forgot) and the Roman Empire so I wonder if you might be confused on your previous assertion.

 

I'm not the one asserting some limit on God's Omnipresence and don't know where that comes from out of my post. I merely asked for some data (canonical and/or historical) to back your claim of "God's favor on Rome" and then "God's destruction of Rome."

House of Pain, I'm really :confused: on this post.

 

My "estimates" were about time frames in history not about Scripture.

 

Since you are speaking with such certainty on time frames from Scripture, please proivde the texts you are using to determine the Height and power of Rome and for that matter their fall. The scriptures were closed by the time of the Fall of the Roman Empire so that would be pretty impossible.

 

You've already confused Sampson (Judges in case you forgot) and the Roman Empire so I wonder if you might be confused on your previous assertion.

 

I'm not the one asserting some limit on God's Omnipresence and don't know where that comes from out of my post. I merely asked for some data (canonical and/or historical) to back your claim of "God's favor on Rome" and then "God's destruction of Rome."

 

I never said God destroyed Rome, I just said he turned away from them and anyone, thing or even country will fall without his favor. That doesn't mean he destroys them himself. Anyway, I have learned a lot during this thread and I use these threads as a point of study....in other words it makes me pick up my Bible more than I would if these threaads weren't on BGP so thanks everyone and God Bless!

I never said God destroyed Rome, I just said he turned away from them and anyone, thing or even country will fall without his favor. That doesn't mean he destroys them himself. Anyway, I have learned a lot during this thread and I use these threads as a point of study....in other words it makes me pick up my Bible more than I would if these threaads weren't on BGP so thanks everyone and God Bless!

 

Glad that we could be of some help! :thumb:

I never said God destroyed Rome, I just said he turned away from them and anyone, thing or even country will fall without his favor. That doesn't mean he destroys them himself. Anyway, I have learned a lot during this thread and I use these threads as a point of study....in other words it makes me pick up my Bible more than I would if these threaads weren't on BGP so thanks everyone and God Bless!

 

I'm glad the discussion is compelling you to search the scriptures more.

 

But I had to close in saying that the implications of the bolded are profound IMO.

 

Rome never was "in the favor of God" when at it's height. It never recognized Yahweh God or Jesus until Constantine in the 4th century AD. Therefore they never could have "turned away from him" to lose that favor.

 

Not every great nation found the FAVOR of God. (i.e. Rome, Greece, Egypt, Babylon, Persia, Carthage, Nazi Germany, USSR, et al) God however works within the unknowing to implement His Divine plan of purpose (i.e. Rome and the Pax Romana) but that does not mean God sanctions that nation or activity. (Israel in the ancient sense being the only exception I see to that rule)