I am sorry where are we promised an EASY life?

It took my parents 30-40 years to get out of it.

My dad worked 73 days straight of 12 hour day shifts.

Please don't tell me I cannot appreciate how hard it was for him.

 

They set a role model for me to get out of it so that I would NOT have t do what they had to do.

 

Too many parents sit at home today, smoking cigarettes, drinking beer, watching their satellite and eagerly accept the checks from the government and they too are being role models for their children.

 

I deal with it 188 days a year.

 

I can show just as many families that work like heck to make ends meet and can't... Sure theres going to be some people beat the system but welfare can work with constant reform... BTW, the governmetn would not have to have welfare sytems if so many churches were not greedy and unethical... With that said theres still some churches who help the needy and the down and out but not many...

I can show just as many families that work like heck to make ends meet and can't... Sure theres going to be some people beat the system but welfare can work with constant reform... BTW, the governmetn would not have to have welfare sytems if so many churches were not greedy and unethical... With that said theres still some churches who help the needy and the down and out but not many...

 

Can you elaborate on the "greedy/unethical churches" part?

I can show just as many families that work like heck to make ends meet and can't... Sure theres going to be some people beat the system but welfare can work with constant reform... BTW, the governmetn would not have to have welfare sytems if so many churches were not greedy and unethical... With that said theres still some churches who help the needy and the down and out but not many...

 

I would like to meet the family who has not overburdened themselves with car loans that are 60 to 72 months in length and are the prices they never needed to purchase AND/OR

 

purchased a home that was beyond their means AND/OR

 

have not run up credit and credit cards with toys (ATV's, boats, vacations, etc, etc) that they did not need to be purchasing...

 

that cannot make ends meet even though they are working their tales off.

 

I can drive through our school parking lot and look at the cars/trucks being driven by students who parents are complaining about making ends meet and I CANNOT afford the car/truck that their child is driving.

 

I drove a $500 Mustang. And there are many students driving $30,000 trucks.

:thumb:

 

 

Ace said...

 

Where does Jesus say "we should take care of the poor, well wait a minute, only those poor who deserve it."?

 

I could easily counter with...

 

Where does Jesus say "we should take people's money away from them and give it to those with less."

 

It is not about "helping the poor" it is about changing the system that causes poverty or exacerbates (sp) it. Donating money to a soup kitchen does not lift a person out of poverty.

 

It works both ways.

 

Christians are not against helping the poor. That's a myth.

 

How about "sell all you have and give the money to the poor"???

 

It is not just about helping the poor it is about changing the system the exacerbates poverty. Donating money to a soup kitchen does not help lift someone out of poverty, it helps them to eat for day or so but it does not change their circumstances.

How about "sell all you have and give the money to the poor"???

 

It is not just about helping the poor it is about changing the system the exacerbates poverty. Donating money to a soup kitchen does not help lift someone out of poverty, it helps them to eat for day or so but it does not change their circumstances.

Agreed, but a system that discourages working does not help them out of poverty either. Public handouts cause deadweight loss in the economy because they are funded by taxes. Private handouts do not cause deadweight loss and often times can be used as tax credits.

How about "sell all you have and give the money to the poor"???

 

It is not just about helping the poor it is about changing the system the exacerbates poverty. Donating money to a soup kitchen does not help lift someone out of poverty, it helps them to eat for day or so but it does not change their circumstances.

Jesus said that to one young man very prideful of his wealth and station in life. He saw into his heart and realized that his "stuff" meant more to him than his actual walk with God. That was a specific prescription to cure the sickness He perceived in that specific person.

 

If you genuinely believe that Jesus intended that universally for all of us, why have you not done it? How many day's work was invested in buying the computer and monitor and internet service and BGP subscription and the electric to make it all work?

 

As to your part two, you are exactly right. I agree 100%.

 

Why then would you support the one politician in this election who has promised not only to sustain the "handouts" that keep the poor in poverty, but he has pledged to increase them.

How about "sell all you have and give the money to the poor"???

 

It is not just about helping the poor it is about changing the system the exacerbates poverty. Donating money to a soup kitchen does not help lift someone out of poverty, it helps them to eat for day or so but it does not change their circumstances.

 

 

The old addage, give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll never be hungry.

How about "sell all you have and give the money to the poor"???

 

It is not just about helping the poor it is about changing the system the exacerbates poverty. Donating money to a soup kitchen does not help lift someone out of poverty, it helps them to eat for day or so but it does not change their circumstances.

You know I've been thinking about this, since you've brought it up several times in different threads.

 

Why do you suppose that Jesus told the rich young ruler to sell all he had and for "him" to give the money to the poor?

 

Why do you suppose Jesus didn't tell him to sell all he had and give the money to Jesus so He could give it to the poor?

 

Surely Jesus was more knowledgable about who really needed the rich man's riches more than others.

 

Surely, Jesus was more in touch with the poor than the rich young man was.

 

I suspect that Jesus wasn't all that worried about "buying" the poor people's votes so He could attain a position of greater power.

 

I have no doubt that if Jesus were standing face-to-face with each of us right now, there's a much greater likelihood that He would make this statement to Mr. Obama (as a rich young ruler seeking greater power) than He would to most of us on this board.

 

If we vote to give the man what he's seeking more than God, are we not in some way aiding and abetting his spiritual downfall?

 

Laugh if you want, it is kind of funny, but it is something to consider. :thumb:

Jesus said that to one young man very prideful of his wealth and station in life. He saw into his heart and realized that his "stuff" meant more to him than his actual walk with God. That was a specific prescription to cure the sickness He perceived in that specific person.

 

If you genuinely believe that Jesus intended that universally for all of us, why have you not done it? How many day's work was invested in buying the computer and monitor and internet service and BGP subscription and the electric to make it all work?

 

As to your part two, you are exactly right. I agree 100%.

 

Why then would you support the one politician in this election who has promised not only to sustain the "handouts" that keep the poor in poverty, but he has pledged to increase them.

:thumb:

Why is that the government is the solution in one instance (gay marriage) and not another (poverty)? It seems convenient that these problems and solutions are divided along party lines. cch5432 brings this contradictory philosophical/partisan split up often in other threads, but I think it is applicable here. It's my opinion that many Christian voters simply subscribe to a particular party, then reconcile their faith to that party's platform. If they weren't doing that, there would be much fewer Republicans and Democrats as much of what both parties stand for is at odds with the Christian faith.

 

My other question, regarding Jesus, is why did he not advocate a theocracy? My first thought is that God's will can't be accomplished through the forced compulsion of laws. Why is that vote as though it can? Or better, why assume that laws (or lack thereof) are prohibiting God's vision?

Don't know if you read my apology earlier but obviously I misread the post. I said that I had become a little "gun shy" and another poster said that was because I was "clinging to my guns and my religion" LOL Again, sorry for the earlier outburst. :thumb:

 

I read it. My reply was solely for humor. :thumb:

I doubt that many of the people that call themselves Christians in this country have their names really written in the Book of the Lamb irregardless of who they are voting for.

 

Scripture shows us that many will call Jesus' name and he will say he does not know them.

 

Was there a point to that...or was it just an FYI?

Why is that the government is the solution in one instance (gay marriage) and not another (poverty)? It seems convenient that these problems and solutions are divided along party lines. cch5432 brings this contradictory philosophical/partisan split up often in other threads, but I think it is applicable here. It's my opinion that many Christian voters simply subscribe to a particular party, then reconcile their faith to that party's platform. If they weren't doing that, there would be much fewer Republicans and Democrats as much of what both parties stand for is at odds with the Christian faith.

 

My other question, regarding Jesus, is why did he not advocate a theocracy? My first thought is that God's will can't be accomplished through the forced compulsion of laws. Why is that vote as though it can? Or better, why assume that laws (or lack thereof) are prohibiting God's vision?

 

Jesus did not advocate a theocracy because his Kingdom is established on a completely different framing story. His kingdom does not worry about being Right on dogma, but on taking care of others. It is not about power, it is about service. It would have been hard for him to advocate for something that his followers had not seen and did not know.

 

He does talk about a new Kingdom but not one with a Ruler. A kingdom full of servants. Hard to fathom.

How about "sell all you have and give the money to the poor"???

 

It is not just about helping the poor it is about changing the system the exacerbates poverty. Donating money to a soup kitchen does not help lift someone out of poverty, it helps them to eat for day or so but it does not change their circumstances.

 

Fastbreak already gave a sufficient response, but I can offer a few more things to consider.

 

Did Jesus force the rich young ruler to give his money to the poor?

 

I'd have no problem if Barack Obama told "rich" people to give money to the poor. The problem I have is taking the choice out of their hands and forcing them to do it.

 

The problem with this thread is that it tries to make it look like conservative Christians and Republicans are against poor people. You see, I suspect many are like me in that they don't buy into the myth that Republicans are trying to oppress the poor. Its a difference in philosophy...one side believes in a free market that creates jobs and wealth, and allows people the opportunity to work and "move up" in life. The other side believes the government should take money away from the "haves" and give it to the "have nots."

 

When you implement a system of handouts that offers no incentive to work harder or get ahead, the end result is disastrous for the country and its people. One system makes people dependent on the government. The other tries to increase opportunities to get ahead and reward people for hard work.

 

Therein lies the difference for me...both groups want to help the poor. They just have different philosophies on how to do so. People who disagree with the approach mistake that for them trying to keep the poor where they are. Abortion, on the other hand, is murder. And murder is wrong. It's a black and white issue. Anyone who tries to argue otherwise is wrong.

Fastbreak already gave a sufficient response, but I can offer a few more things to consider.

 

Did Jesus force the rich young ruler to give his money to the poor?

 

I'd have no problem if Barack Obama told "rich" people to give money to the poor. The problem I have is taking the choice out of their hands and forcing them to do it.

 

The problem with this thread is that it tries to make it look like conservative Christians and Republicans are against poor people. You see, I suspect many are like me in that they don't buy into the myth that Republicans are trying to oppress the poor. Its a difference in philosophy...one side believes in a free market that creates jobs and wealth, and allows people the opportunity to work and "move up" in life. The other side believes the government should take money away from the "haves" and give it to the "have nots."

 

When you implement a system of handouts that offers no incentive to work harder or get ahead, the end result is disastrous for the country and its people. One system makes people dependent on the government. The other tries to increase opportunities to get ahead and reward people for hard work.

 

Therein lies the difference for me...both groups want to help the poor. They just have different philosophies on how to do so. People who disagree with the approach mistake that for them trying to keep the poor where they are. Abortion, on the other hand, is murder. And murder is wrong. It's a black and white issue. Anyone who tries to argue otherwise is wrong.

 

I don't think anyone is against the poor. However, if you support a system that is oppressive and has been shown time and time again to increase the gap between the rich and poor, with the rich getting extra rich and more people falling into poverty then you support a system that is against the poor.